DirectStream, Bridge II, Roon, and the Future

Audio Components DACs
81
rodrigaj said

…Please give me something that allows me to choose and play my music easily… to load music on my NAS and have it seen by the control point without fiddling…that is intuitive…that works without glitches. I have my a fully functional NAS, I have ethernet connectivity to the Bridge, I have a solid LAN / Internet connection, all I want is something with a decent GUI that works without glitches and without fiddling. Please.


For a company that has next to zero interest in music, Kaleidescape does all that. Only you can’t use your NAS, you must use theres as they work in a closed ecosystem. Because they work in a closed ecosystem they have control over everything, and everything works as expected (they do however use 3rd party metadata library services tightly integrated in their system). Of course there are negatives with a closed ecosystem like this, but for me the many positives outweigh the few negatives.

When I read about people considering all the different software end-point options, NAS and other hardware options, content source options, metadata tweaking and all of that I just shudder. Insanely complicated every which way you might look at it. I like to keep it simple, and simple is CD. Kaleidescape. Push one button and you’re underway. And more recently I’ve begun to rave about Spotify and DAC’s like DS/DSJ that support Spotify natively without the need for another box (apart from the controller). Kaleidescape will never do what Spotify does, so my end game is both of them, with Spotify doing most of the heavy lifting.

Octave is not on my radar.

82
brodricj said

For a company that has next to zero interest in music, Kaleidescape does all that. Only you can’t use your NAS, you must use theres as they work in a closed ecosystem.

Can you elaborate on “theres”? My first thought is cloud based, to that I say big negative!
83

My recollection is Kaleidescape requires the user to purchase one of their proprietary disc servers/NAS which they call Vault. Nothing is cloud based.

At least when I looked (out of curiosity only, I have no interest in video and do not watch movies) Kaleidescape’s offerings were very expensive. The entry level server with some built in storage was something like $4,000 and smallest disc server was ~ $4,000. The big rigs they offer are $30,000+.

I invite brodricj to correct me and add to my answer as I am certain he is vastly more knowledgeable than I.

84

As I mentioned, the Kaleidescape people don’t care much for music, they are all about movies. As a CD player it sounds so close to DMP there is nothing for me to be gained in spinning a CD. The system is as you’d expect, content imported and stored on a RAID enabled server (one of theirs) distributed across a network to however many players you want (again, only their players work with their servers). Yes, they are expensive, however there is a used market and the prices mentioned by Elk above are ball-park correct for used gear. You don’t need the vault for music, you just need a player that can import CD to the server, and play it back from the server. The Kaleidescape end-user experience for music is still better than anything else I have seen, by a long measure. I had been using my Kaleidescape system mostly for CD playback, and concert videos, but with the advent of Spotify, and particularly more recently with a Spotify renderer embedded in DS BridgeII, my Kaleidescape sees far less utilisation for music now than it did before. However, if you have a large collection of CD and you don’t subscribe to the Spotify Premium service, then the best solution for playing your CD’s without the drama of spinning them in a dedicated player, is with Kaleidescape. And I think that was the crux of the OP question.

85

What do they use for metadata for CDs?

What is the interface like?

I am also curious, do movie people worry as much as we do about metadata? Do they track actors, producers, directors, genre, etc.? At least in talking to people I know who like movies, they typically only talk titles. They refer to actors only to help each other remember a particular movie: “It is the one with ____ in it playing a _____.”

86

… I did see something in the search about them having problems related to video “sharing” a while back. Guess they got past that!..

87

I have a question that I think I know the answer to. Can I stream Tidal from my PC to Bridge 11? I know you can do it with Roon in the circuit.

Is Tidal direct streaming something that could done much the same as you did with Spottily?

I have tried Spottily but personal i can’t stand the sound, I can’t even tolerate for casual listening

magicknow

88
Elk said

What do they use for metadata for CDs?

What is the interface like?

I am also curious, do movie people worry as much as we do about metadata? Do they track actors, producers, directors, genre, etc.? At least in talking to people I know who like movies, they typically only talk titles. They refer to actors only to help each other remember a particular movie: “It is the one with ____ in it playing a _____.”

1. They use a 3rd party service provider for CD metadata integration with their other capabilities...you just import a CD into the system and all the information is there.

  1. Re the interface, there is none better. Various drivers and modules etc available for most control systems, but their free iPad App is all you need.

  2. Movie people worry more about metadata: Kaleidescape bookmark movie titles and that requires manually tweaking metadata at their end for which they have a dedicated team for doing that.

89
magicknow said

…I have tried Spottily but personal i can’t stand the sound, I can’t even tolerate for casual listening

Really? In my system Spotify sounds virtually as good as the CD.

90
pmotz said

… I did see something in the search about them having problems related to video “sharing” a while back. Guess they got past that!..

The legal issue was whether an owner of a DVD could write a copy of it on a server for their own private use without infringing copyright. They won, the decision was appealed, they won that, it was appealed again, they lost. The bottom line, making a copy of a DVD you own is illegal. It eventually sent them bankrupt. The company was resurrected after a few phone calls from some Hollywood heavyweights to appropriate people who got them back in business.
91

I use Roon to output HQPlayer. Will Octave do the same for HQPlayer?

Thanks

92

As you know I am the noob so bear with me…

What will the server actually do? Will it be like a Tidal warehousing the media?

Will Octave work through Bridge II?

I looked on you Octave interface test site and didn’t see any of my records there. How is it decided what Artists are included? It is just bots that go out and find material for the server?

Will there be requests for titles to include? How does this work?

I am more interested in knowledge as opposed to having any issues. I am sure I will use a PS Audio Server when it comes out.

Thank you

TD

93

Octave will be a music server which manages and plays your music. The test site is a prototype interface with an exemplar user library.

You may find it helpful to review this thread.

94

Thank you I will…

95

I have browsed a bit…So it looks like a replacement to Roon ?? I dont have much of a digital library which is why I am interested in streaming, so Octive wouldnt do much for me I think.

Thanks

96

Aloha From Maui,

I’ve spent a fair amount of time with just about every Mac based player on the market. For me, there are two main criteria. Sound quality, and functionality. In that light, there is no perfect player, far from it.

iTunes is good for library management, but terrible for SQ.

JRiver sounds ok, but is a little wobbly on the functionality side.

Amarra sounds great, but is a frequently an unstable mess. And not up to HQPlayer SQ standards.

Audirvana is too bright, but functions ok, not great.

Fidelia sounds great, outdated GUI and no longer supported.

HQPlayer sounds the best to my ears, but has an antiquated GUI.

Roon sounds below average, is absurdly priced, but does create the best user experience. It just works. And with HQPlayer, the SQ is excellent. I am a Roon subscriber, but would gladly jump ship if a better, more sanely priced option appeared.

Which is to say, creating really good playback software is not easy. Everyone from Apple with their billions, down to a guy in France who created Audirvana, have come up short.

I have a friend who loves his Aurender, but is jealous of the rich feature set Roon offers.

I encourage Octave to go for it. Wow me and I’ll dump Roon tomorrow. But for the sake of peace, please continue to keep Roon in the picture, and double pretty please, draw HQPlayer in as well by adding NAA support.

97

@ksalno I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head here. My digital system is really based on Roon. I bought a lifetime membership and a sonic transporter to house the core. But beyond the monetary investment, which is not overly excessive in my mind, my playback system depends very much on Roon. As some have pointed out, Roon could obviously go away at some point and that would be major disappointment to me. Roon is the best digital playback software system I’ve ever come across. It’s not perfect. Smart playlist support in particular is lacking. I’ve never liked the Focus feature. I still use JRiver for that reason and for file management to some degree. But they continue to work on Roon and improve it. Maybe Big Server will be great. Who knows? We’ll have to wait and see what it looks like. In the end I really hope that PSA does decide to add in Roon endpoint support into the Bridge III. Whether I’m prepared to ditch Roon for Big Server? I’m open minded but wedded to Roon for now.

98

As a Roon lifetime license purchaser, I have completely given up on the Bridge II card and don’t have any plans to get the new Octave card whatever it will be called.

Why have I given up on the Bridge II card? Well, using it is a crap shoot. Yes, PS Audio supports it, but they don’t write all the code for it so they can only do so much. The fact that it only does PCM 192K and DSD64 is quite limiting. It works well with Roon but Roon, and every other app I tried, sounds better going to the USB port through a streamer instead.

Who knows what the new card will support. At least PS Audio will build the whole thing so there is hope for better features and support. Will it support Roon? We won’t know that until the card is near release.

Regardless, using Octave is going to be a major investment compared to Roon and that is just to get started. Who knows if will have the flexibility to controls zones like Roon can with a variety of hardware. I doubt it will as it will be a closed ecosystem. Will Octave integrate with Tidal and Qobuz? How well? No, I don’t see me investing in a closed system that will be much more expensive. I don’t see how Octave could exceed the sound quality of HQPlayer Embedded which I am using now.

I look at it when it is release…but I am not holding my breath.

99

Just a suggestion but to make your life less complicated just make a bridge III in-house as a end point like you have with bridge II but because you control the hardware and software there should be less hassles .

Create your stand alone Octive MS box with endpoint capability in bridge III this way you don’t have people who like roon paying for a octive ms built into the bridge III they will never use. I like roon myself, I don’t see roon going out of business too many hardware companies make end point devices and roon is only becoming more popular so why reinvent software from scratch?

100

Are there any updates about the Bridge III?
Will we see it at all?