mark-d said Paul.The reason I think the DS will take a value resale hit is since the DS is already heavily discounted . . . [remainder of long quote deleted]Yes I've experienced this.
Paul McGowan said Take a look now.That works
Frode saidSo, I read this as if you stack 3 Junior, multi-channel SACD is possible when each Junior is connected to the upcoming PWT MKII?
Correct. Junior or Seniors
Ted Smith said I've looked at several similar possibilities - it wasn't in the budget for the Jr but something like that is on my list."On my list" is good!
I've got a couple of Spice simulated low jitter optical connections for multichannel DSD, tho I want to get some more cost out of them. As you mention an advantage of the DS is that it doesn't need to pass a clock upstream to get a low jitter connection so I2S (or clock, left and right DSD data) over three TOSLink cables is a pretty easy and low jitter double rate DSD capable connection. Only using two cables implies an encoded clock and the associated worries about some kind of modulation crop up but are essentially not different than having two parallel S/PDIF connections which as you mention is quite doable.In figuring out how to reply to that paragraph, you've helped me realise a couple of things I'd overlooked before – like the need for S/PDIF's preamble to establish polarity and sync, because optical requires NRZ signalling, meaning a direct transposition of I2S onto optical isn't quite that simple.
I think that’s why you mentioned a 3rd connector, which would let us establish the sync and polarity separately. Is that right?
Two parallel S/PDIF connections on standard 16Mbaud Toslink connections would only give us enough bandwidth for DSD64 (via DoP) and 192kHz PCM – assuming each connection was dedicated to a single channel. If we had 25Mbaud Toslink connectors those numbers would double, which is really the baseline for the USB-to-optical feature to be worthwhile in the first place.
Two 25Mbaud Toslink inputs would be great for people with a variety of optical sources, supporting up to 192kHz PCM and DSD64 on each input. It would even do that with cheap 3rd party USB-to-optical converters that run fast enough. Above that could be the PS Audio USB interface which supported 384kHZ PCM and DSD128 with total electrical isolation.
I hope I can buy something along these lines one day.
I wouldn't be surprised if John Swenson/UpTone are working on such a box.Still I have some ideas on how to make a device that will sound as good without an extra box that I’m more likely to prototype first.
Or that. I could buy that.
FWIW I found a device that is a true optical USB cable (i.e. it encodes all of the metadata and transmits it over the glass connection along with the data and hence doesn't have or need a ground connection or a 5V connection.) Tho it sounds better it's not perfect and it costs a lot. (It's still subject to the adaptive transceiver issues that the Regen addresses.)Interesting. Could you point it out to us please?
Don't get me wrong I totally agree that optical connections are the way to go for audio when compatibility issues aren't present and I also agree that tossing USB out of the DAC would be great, as long as some USB solution were available.That's the bottom line for me. Thanks again, I'll leave it at that.
I am in the market for a new DAC and would like know why I should buy the DS over the Junior?
Tech HiFi said I am in the market for a new DAC and would like know why I should buy the DS over the Junior?There are design and feature differences that are detailed on the website. Once you've determined how that effects your approach, listen to them both then make your decision. Assuming both would meet your need, base your decision on how they sound to you. The "15%" difference may not be discernible by 99% of us anyway.
As far as pricing, I’m sure Junior will be afforded the same pricing treatment as daddy once the new has worn off, maybe even from the get go.
speeddeacon said Once you've determined how that effects your approach, listen to them both [DS and Junior] then make your decision. Assuming both would meet your need, base your decision on how they sound to you. The "15%" difference may not be discernible by 99% of us anyway.The room and the rest of the system will also play a critical role in determining whether one can appreciate the differences.
The reviews of the NuWave (both here and professional) make clear it is also extremely competitive. Depending one what one currently owns and where you are heading with your system I would keep this unit in mind as well.
Discussion of used DS prices moved to: Click
Let’s stick to discussing the neat new DS Junior in this thread. 
Thanks guys!
Please let us know what you think when you audition any of the DACs and what you finally decide.
You have an excellent, revealing system. It will be great fun to hear what alternate DACs can do in it, especially as you are already using a very good DAC.
Hi Ted,
What about a BNC connector and a galvanic decoupling transformer on the coax connection? Do you use a transformer, or did you experiment with one on the input of the DS & DSjr?
After all the talk on the DS not being sensitive to digital cables, there sure is a lot of discussion on hanging reclockers, regenerators, etc, etc, etc just hanging out there in the wind in front of the digital inputs–> influencing/improving the sound.
Thanks!
I tried to always be clear that the DS was less sensitive to jitter than most DACs, but ground loops are a major concern and that people don’t pay enough attention to them in their systems. In a future DAC I’ll address groundloops in a better way. An experiment to demonstrate the issue for yourself is to connect multiple connections from a single source to the DS and then while music is playing select the different inputs and listen for differences (e.g. use a PWT and connect all of it’s outputs to the DS.) Many people can’t hear any difference between TOSLink, S/PDIF, AES/EBU and I2S if they all share the same groundloops, In fact I don’t know of any other DACs which will make that transition from input to input seamlessly with no gaps, no crackles, no pops, etc. as well as no changes (or very small changes) in sound quality.
There’s no particular need for a BNC on the S/PDIF of the DS - yes, a BNC can be 75 ohms (unlike an RCA) and hence can cause fewer impedance discontinuities and hence fewer reflections and hence less jitter, but the DS doesn’t care as much about that as much as most DACs. And having a non-standard connector is a problem for more people as well.
In the DS the signals on the Coax and XLR inputs are already galvanically isolated. The issue is that all shields are tied together tightly which is the best thing to do on most systems. Not connecting the shields of the cables to ground can cause much more problem than ground loops. Using a strong ground helps keep the groundloop noise from affecting the DAC proper (or at least minimizes any such effect.) But the DAC can’t fix the damage to the sound quality that groundloops cause the rest of the system.
In general the best thing to do with the DS (and most audio equipment) to control such noises is to use optical or balanced connections, then much of the common mode noise canceled out (or absent) on each connection. The next best is to use a connection with a separate shield from any of the signals (i.e. I2S or AES/EBU.)
I got an email from MusicDirect.com saying
SPECIAL OFFER - Trade-in any PS Audio DAC and get $1,000 off DirectStream Junior: Call us for details.
Ships March 1st.
Sounds like it is worth checking out if you are thinking about upgrading. PS Audio usually offers some sort of trade in deal, so give them a call to see what they are offering as well.
Seems PS Audio is offering the same deal direct:
Got mine today. So far so good. Anyone, Paul, Ted, have and idea of how long break in should take? I’m guessing about 400 hours or so. Sounds pretty good already with about 9 hours on it. It’s feed from MAC Mini -> Audirvana + -> AQ Jitter bug -> AQ Diamond USB ->Regen -> DS Jr. -> Parasound P-7 -> Parasound A-21 via AQ 8 speaker cables -> Magnepan 3.7. Will try some other configurations after burn in. Fun Time is here!
It runs a little warmer and doesn’t have output transformers so I suspect the break-in time will be significantly less than the DS. But this is just a guess.
I agree with Ted. It should sound damn good out of the box and I found after 24 hours of burn in it opened up. So it might be a little tight at first, but after a few days, should sound amazing.
Paul, Ted,
After over 24 hours, I’m now listening to Nana Mouskouri and if I didn’t have dry eyes, I would have tears running down my face. Not to mention all the toe tapping going on while listening to Jazz and Pop music. Thanks to you both for the outstanding work on the Direct Stream products. DS Jr. rocks, can’t imagine how it could get better, but, I bet it will!
P.S. Paul, if you haven’t heard Nana Mouskouri before, check her out. Nana sings everything from high opera to jazz to country and has sold over 300 million albums worldwide. I have 27 of her albums so far.
27 Albums. That is as silly as my ~30 recordings of Mozart’s Requiem.
Which album do you suggest as a good introduction for those unfamiliar with her work?
Paul,
For opera style: Concierto En Aranjuez, or Serie Millennium 21
For Pop style: Only Love, or Falling in Love again
Check Amazon for more.
I hope you will love Nana as much as I do. So many opera singers sound forced, Nana just opens her mouth and songs come out. If you do get hooked or her singing, try “Nana Mouskouri Collection complete english works”, strangely it not all in english, considering the title. There’s also a French collection I think, haven’t gotten it yet. Enjoy!