DS and bridge


#1

Hello,

I’m enjoying my DS, however I’m not certain what bitrates are supported on the Bridge

I can play file 5644 dsf and the DS DISPLAYS DSD 64 1

I cannot play file 11289 dsf DS displays PCM 176.4 all I get is silence no music heard

I have tried different configurations in jriver media centre options = Media network - configure DLNA servers - audiofile 24-bit DAC

I can get the same DSD file 11289 to play using wavestream to bridge though displays on the DS DSD 64 1 this is a DSD128 file?

can you play a DSD dsf 128 file on the bridge?

I need to use the bridge and is why I bought it I tried a 5 meter USB cable however I get some distortion and is problematic


#2

DSD x2 is not yet playable to the bridge. It will by DOP to USB.

IN JR MAKE SURE DSD is selected under Bitrate and internal volume is set.(later try ext vol if it now works)

jr volume must be at 100% to play well. ( in my case)


#3

Sounds like a setup problem to me. Do remember, however, the Bridge will only play single rate DSD. The only way you can play double rate DSD is through the regular inputs.


#4

Thanks Gordon and Paul,

That explains it why I can’t get DSD 128 to work through the bridge.

My problem is I am restricted to a 5 m length from the location of my PC to the DS DAC itself. I cannot get the USB port to be bit perfect but will not pass the test the Bridge does pass the test and can pass DSD 64.

I got two options drag my big PC into a music room. I really don’t want to do that.

Paul would you estimate when the bridge version 2 might be available, this would allow me to make a decision whether to find another option a small PC for the music room or wait for the bridge V2 either option would most likely cost roughly the same. laugh

Thanks John


#5
Johno said Thanks Gordon and Paul,

That explains it why I can’t get DSD 128 to work through the bridge.

My problem is I am restricted to a 5 m length from the location of my PC to the DS DAC itself. I cannot get the USB port to be bit perfect but will not pass the test the Bridge does pass the test and can pass DSD 64.

I got two options drag my big PC into a music room. I really don’t want to do that.

Paul would you estimate when the bridge version 2 might be available, this would allow me to make a decision whether to find another option a small PC for the music room or wait for the bridge V2 either option would most likely cost roughly the same. laugh

Thanks John


I don’t remember if you’ve already mentioned it, but are you using an active USB cable (sort of a USB extension cord)? My library of disks and the DS are both on the end of a 15’ or 20’ USB cable.

#6

Thanks Ted

I have determined I’m not as lucky as you my cable is a straight AB no longer than 20 foot I can get sound but wont pass the Bit perfect test and choppy audible was heard when I increased the buffers to 500ms the choppy audible cleaned up. This is no good

my only solution here is to buy a Intel NUC possibly Linux as the operating system I like Jriver as the player. I will have to investigate how easy that is to put together I’m not sure if the Linux version of Jriver is mature to play well (if anyone has experience would appreciate hearing)

edit = Ted are you using an active USB cable at 15 - 20 foot ?

Thanks

John


#7
Johno said Thanks Gordon and Paul,

That explains it why I can’t get DSD 128 to work through the bridge.

My problem is I am restricted to a 5 m length from the location of my PC to the DS DAC itself. I cannot get the USB port to be bit perfect but will not pass the test the Bridge does pass the test and can pass DSD 64.

I got two options drag my big PC into a music room. I really don’t want to do that.

Paul would you estimate when the bridge version 2 might be available, this would allow me to make a decision whether to find another option a small PC for the music room or wait for the bridge V2 either option would most likely cost roughly the same. laugh

Thanks John


Bridge II is expected this December at latest look. I don’t know the cost but it should be close to $1K, probably a little under.

It will most likely NOT handle double rate DSD either.


#8
Paul McGowan said

It will most likely NOT handle double rate DSD either.

WHAT??? I'm waiting for this in the new bridge, without it will be useless to me. Oh crap...

#9

Paul, I appreciate the update; it’s useful to be able to plan for purchases. But I also am very disappointed in the lack of double DSD. This seems like a strange omission, since so many products coming out now do support both single and double DSD.


#10

And the DS is, by design, a DSD DAC.


#11
Paul McGowan said

Bridge II is expected this December at latest look. I don’t know the cost but it should be close to $1K, probably a little under.

It will most likely NOT handle double rate DSD either.

Hrm...this does cause one to pause, both on cost, and lack of Double DSD.

Paul, what’s the reasoning behind that? Technical, or Logical?


#12
Johno said Thanks Ted

I have determined I’m not as lucky as you my cable is a straight AB no longer than 20 foot I can get sound but wont pass the Bit perfect test and choppy audible was heard when I increased the buffers to 500ms the choppy audible cleaned up. This is no good

my only solution here is to buy a Intel NUC possibly Linux as the operating system I like Jriver as the player. I will have to investigate how easy that is to put together I’m not sure if the Linux version of Jriver is mature to play well (if anyone has experience would appreciate hearing)

edit = Ted are you using an active USB cable at 15 - 20 foot ?

Thanks

John

From the USB FAQ:

2. I want to build a cable longer than 5 meters, why won’t this work?

A: Even if you violated the spec, it literally wouldn’t get you very far. Assuming worst-case delay times, a full speed device at the bottom of 5 hubs and cables has a timeout margin of 280ps. Reducing this margin to 0ps would only give you an extra 5cm, which is hardly worth the trouble.

My advice is to use an active cable for longer than, say, 3m (10 feet). The only downsides are a little cost (but nothing compared to any “audiophile” USB cable) and one less level of USB hub available.

Search anywhere (e.g. Amazon) for “active usb extension cable” for many choices.


#13
magister said Paul, I appreciate the update; it's useful to be able to plan for purchases. But I also am very disappointed in the lack of double DSD. This seems like a strange omission, since so many products coming out now do support both single and double DSD.
I know, but the limitation is the new Bridge II will only support 192kHz/24 bits. How many other streaming devices can handle 354kHz? When we started Bridge II, over a year ago, our goals were 192kHz/24, single rate DSD, gapless, reclocking etc. We never specified the higher rate for a couple of reasons, but the main one is that it's technically extremely hard from a firmware/driver standpoint. This is the same reason even today most streaming devices are still limited to 96kHz/24 - it continues to be rare to see 192 and even rarer to see 354, at least in a streraming over Ethernet device.

#14

err . . . uh . . . there is that. embarassed


#15

This is a bit disappointing, but at least Paul and PS Audio recognize that it a technical issue that is out of their reach at this time. There is not yet a lot of material available at DSD 128, but I suspect that much more is coming. Now, when are we going to see people pushing material at DSD 512??? :open_mouth:

J.P.


#16

Hi Paul and Ted

Please what is the highest sample rate the bridge can be bit perfect? the PS Audio test file is 96khz and 24 bit.

Can a 176.4 24bit and 192khz 24 bit test file be made available from PS Audio please

I’m trying to decide my best solution I have tried today after purchasing a 4m active USB cable with a joining 1 meter AB USB cable I can hear sound and it is not choppy but does not pass the bit perfect test as the bridge does.

Paul and Ted please what is the best interface to use to achieve the highest bit perfect interface to the DS. In my mind if it is bit perfect the transport media should not matter

I would like to achieve the maximum bit perfect transfer rate even if that means a small computer in the listening room I did try to get away from having to do that but a Intel NUC may make that bearable.

will USB with a short cable support bit perfect DSD 64 and 128

Appreciate all advice, sorry for all the enquiring questions though I’m keen to make the right purchases to mate with the DS DAC amazing musical performance

Regards

John


#17
Johno said

Please what is the highest sample rate the bridge can be bit perfect? the PS Audio test file is 96khz and 24 bit.

Can a 176.4 24bit and 192khz 24 bit test file be made available from PS Audio please

I’m trying to decide my best solution I have tried today after purchasing a 4m active USB cable with a joining 1 meter AB USB cable I can hear sound and it is not choppy but does not pass the bit perfect test as the bridge does.

Paul and Ted please what is the best interface to use to achieve the highest bit perfect interface to the DS. In my mind if it is bit perfect the transport media should not matter

I would like to achieve the maximum bit perfect transfer rate even if that means a small computer in the listening room I did try to get away from having to do that but a Intel NUC may make that bearable.

will USB with a short cable support bit perfect DSD 64 and 128

Appreciate all advice, sorry for all the enquiring questions though I’m keen to make the right purchases to mate with the DS DAC amazing musical performance

Regards

John


The Bridge supports 24/192 PCM (and therefor single rate DSD via DoP). The 24/192 bitperfect test file for the bridge is huge, but there’s no reason we can’t offer it to download.

(FWIW If you have any audio tools, you can just take the 24/96 bit perfect test file and change the sample rate (without resampling) and for the bridge loop the test file a few times.)

The probable reasons that you don’t pass a bit perfect test are setup issues in your player or OS. Have you followed the advice in the bit perfect test How To? It has some suggestions for where things go awry.

Yep all inputs to the DS should pass the 24/96 bit perfect test (and they do with any software I’ve used for the DS.)

All non TOSLink inputs handle 24/192 (and single rate DSD via DoP) and should pass the bit perfect test at 24/192

The I2S inputs on the HDMI connector also handle raw DSD at single and double rates (tho there’s no bit perfect test for that.)

The USB input handles 16 to 24 bits at 44.1 thru 352.8kHz and single and double rate DSD via DoP. and should pass the bit perfect test at any rate.

You may have already given the answers to these questions elsewhere, but I’ll ask them again and see if we can figure out what’s going on.

What OS are you using and which player software? The bit perfect test How To has all suggestions for all of the typical problems for users of Windows / JRiver MC (and some for foobar2000)


#18

Hello Ted,

really appreciate all your answers and advice, my PC is Windows 8 and Jriver media centre.

I have been successful using the active USB cable in combination with the 1 m AB USB cable. I am able to run the bit perfect test and get acknowledgement from the DS DAC success, I can also play DSD 128music-078_gif

Everything was correctly configured with the USB driver as per the - how to , however I have discovered while trying many different configurations in Jriver, I cannot get a successful bit perfect test using PS audio perfect wave DSD (ASIO) though changing that to waspi I have success. 77_gif

to re-cap: in options - DSP studio: I don’t have this option selected (I’m not using DSD Bitstream in DoP format) I am using in Jriver options - settings: DSD yes = audio path displays input =DOP 5.6 megahertz 1bit two channel from source format DSS ----------- output DoP 5.6 MHz 1bit padded two channel using wasapi bit streaming

I used dBpoweramp music converter to make the 192X24 test file but the same configuration which gets a successful acknowledgment from the DS at 96X24 does not work with the new 192 converted file

Strange I could not get ASIO to work

Appreciated

John


#19
Johno said Hello Ted,

really appreciate all your answers and advice, my PC is Windows 8 and Jriver media centre.

I have been successful using the active USB cable in combination with the 1 m AB USB cable. I am able to run the bit perfect test and get acknowledgement from the DS DAC success, I can also play DSD 128music-078_gif

Everything was correctly configured with the USB driver as per the - how to , however I have discovered while trying many different configurations in Jriver, I cannot get a successful bit perfect test using PS audio perfect wave DSD (ASIO) though changing that to waspi I have success. 77_gif

to re-cap: in options - DSP studio: I don’t have this option selected (I’m not using DSD Bitstream in DoP format) I am using in Jriver options - settings: DSD yes = audio path displays input =DOP 5.6 megahertz 1bit two channel from source format DSS ----------- output DoP 5.6 MHz 1bit padded two channel using wasapi bit streaming

Strange that I could not get ASIO to work

Appreciated

John


Thanks for the feedback on ASIO with Windows 8 (and potentially JRiver MC)

WASAPI is every bit as good as ASIO with these windows drivers so it’s fine.

I’m glad you got things working.


#20

Hello Paul,

Please can you arrange for us to have Bit perfect test files 176.4 and 192 same as the 96khz file I converted the 96khz file to 192 and that does not return a positive result on the USB or the bridge inputs

Thanks

Johno