Now that we have DSD, how do we get it??


#1

Ok so we have the great Directstream Dac… it’s all about DSD right , so how do I play DSD files on my DS when I get it??? The Bridge won’t play it, the PWT won’t play it…I’m wondering what’s the most elegant solution ( No I’m not going to hook up a Laptop in my living room…)


#2

The bridge will play DSD, the PWT will play DSD. I’ve listened to DSD thru both.

DSD is also available via the NuWave Phono Converter.



Among others foobar2000 and JRiver Media Center both support playing and streaming DSD in a DoP “envelope”. In JRiver you need to explicitly enable DSD bitstreaming both for playing and for DLNA. In foobar2000 you need foo_input_sacd which comes with a foo_dsd_asio which is an ASIO proxy that does the DoP.


#3

It will be a bummer if the Bridge II cannot handle dsf and diff when streamed from a library (NAS, Silent Server, etc.) in addition to DoP. At least for 2.8MHz. Just have a look at the competition…


#4

If Bridge II cannot handle ALL common raw and lossless formats available today then Paul really needs to be paying attention to make it so. Hopefully Bridge II will have the processing and eprom reserve to add potential future formats too.



J.P.


#5
It will be a bummer if the Bridge II cannot handle dsf and diff when streamed from a library (NAS, Silent Server, etc.) in addition to DoP. At least for 2.8MHz. Just have a look at the competition......

I'm don't know much about DLNA, I guess I assumed that the player will be optionally transcoding, instead of the raw file always being transferred from the music server. Most of my DSD is in .iso's and I just assumed that no one would stream a whole ISO to get an individual track. Similarly: do most renderers accept, say a huge flac and a cue sheet and know how to read just what they need out of the flac based on that cue sheet?

#6

The DS with Bridge (uPnP capable) makes somehow a music server solution without storage capabilities. For my Lumin I download dff files to my library and just stream them to the Lumin the same way as I stream any hirez file. The response via the iDevice (iPad controller) is instantanous, so there is not much buffering going on prior to or during playback. If I fast forward to any point in time within a DSD track, the playing resume within 100ms. The Lumin also transcodes into DSD (if toggled) the same way as the DirectStream but this is done inside the inherent Wolfson chip. The only pre-buffering done is next track when in gapless mode (Linn uPnP Extensions).

I would guess that Minimserver would give satisfactory SQ on the server side if on the fly transcoding of DSD is invoked. In this case the DSD decoding on the renderer side (Bridge) is less important.

However, without this feature I feel that the Bridge II will seem a bit old fashion in 2014.

PS Audio strategic intent is to remain avant garde on the technology side, I assume?


#7

For me with my UMT plus. I can stream almost any file type or size but only up to dsd64. Beyond that I must do dop and use a CPU with jriver and iPad app if I wish. This player is about 11k and is late 2013 model and there is no update . So my point is the new DS is half the price and most likely have all the features and sound quality. And the UMT plus has no dac. So I think ps audio is really doing a great job at very cheap price with DS.



AL


#8
For me with my UMT plus. I can stream almost any file type or size but only up to dsd64.

The most likely reason for this is that the UMT cannot cope with DSDx2.
This is a common problem because they are dependent on the inherent properties of chip manufacturers.
With FPGA this is less of a problem.


#9

@tedsmith Did I read this correctly? You can play DSD files from the PWT? That would be great. My neighbor has a bunch of SACDs and no way to play them. I am sure he would trade the lot for a bottle of decent single malt.


#10
@tedsmith Did I read this correctly? You can play DSD files from the PWT? That would be great. My neighbor has a bunch of SACDs and no way to play them. I am sure he would trade the lot for a bottle of decent single malt.

I reckon Ted will chime in here, but I think you misunderstood a little, birddogthecat.
The PWT cannot read SACD discs, only play wav files.
How this works you can find in another thread (or FAQ page).
Basically, here is what have to be done:
You may use foobar2000 (or similar) to convert native DSD to DoP (lossless). This will produce a 24 bit 176.4kHz wav file which can be written to a CD-R or DVD-R and then finalized (for the TOC to be written). The PWT may also play the file to the DirectStream that will recognize it as DoP and play it accordingly.

#11

@frode Thank you. What you wrote in your reply was my understanding and I do recall a lengthy discussion on this topic. I thought (hoped?) perhaps something had changed regarding the PWT/DSD.



Unfortunately, I cannot remember the last time I used the PWT. When it first arrived along with the PWD2/Bridge, I used the PWT to see if it worked. I think after those first few days other than updating PWT FW it just sits there beneath the PWD.


#12
@frode Thank you. What you wrote in your reply was my understanding and I do recall a lengthy discussion on this topic. I thought (hoped?) perhaps something had changed regarding the PWT/DSD.

Unfortunately, I cannot remember the last time I used the PWT. When it first arrived along with the PWD2/Bridge, I used the PWT to see if it worked. I think after those first few days other than updating PWT FW it just sits there beneath the PWD.

I am afraid that this is not a firmware issue.
A SACD laser operate in another wavelenght, so the COTS DVD ROM transport has to be replaced.
Ted gave an example of an outboard one in another thread.


#13

@frode We are all so very fortunate to have generous and knowledgeable Forum members who guide the less gifted through the digital domain (morass?).



Thank you.


#14

Pardon my ignorance but will the DS with Bridge 1 play the DSD files you get from Acoustic Sounds like the DSD they have of Steely Dan's Gaucho. Is all you have to do is enable "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" in Media Network? Will it then stream via PLC to Ethernet input on Bridge? I can make them work in the player part of JRMC but it down samples to 176400hz 64bit. If I enable Bitstreaming (DSD) I get no sound at all.

#15

Pardon my ignorance but will the DS with Bridge 1 play the DSD files you get from Acoustic Sounds like the DSD they have of Steely Dan's Gaucho. Is all you have to do is enable "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" in Media Network? Will it then stream via PLC to Ethernet input on Bridge? I can make them work in the player part of JRMC but it down samples to 176400hz 64bit. If I enable Bitstreaming (DSD) I get no sound at all.

The Bridge I cannot render DoP, I'm afraid.


#16

Pardon my ignorance but will the DS with Bridge 1 play the DSD files you get from Acoustic Sounds like the DSD they have of Steely Dan's Gaucho. Is all you have to do is enable "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" in Media Network? Will it then stream via PLC to Ethernet input on Bridge? I can make them work in the player part of JRMC but it down samples to 176400hz 64bit. If I enable Bitstreaming (DSD) I get no sound at all.

On my DS all I need to do to play DSD files off of my local computer is to enable the "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" option in JRMC 19 and it plays the DSD via DoP over the bridge. Similarly I've used various UPnP addons with foobar2000 to play DSD files via the bridge. Of course if you don't have a DS yet you won't hear anything but low level noise when you do this. Am I misunderstanding your question?


#17

On my DS all I need to do to play DSD files off of my local computer is to enable the "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" option in JRMC 19 and it plays the DSD via DoP over the bridge. Similarly I've used various UPnP addons with foobar2000 to play DSD files via the bridge. Of course if you don't have a DS yet you won't hear anything but low level noise when you do this. Am I misunderstanding your question?

So what I read from this is that you in fact can play a DoP file over the Bridge I since it is a DoP compliant renderer (or is it)? I thought you had to make the DSD to wave conversion inside JRMC 19 prior to feeding it to the Bridge....
This relates to the PWD.
If my assumption was wrong it is a good thing.



#18

There are a couple of possible sources of confusion.



I think many people don’t understand (or if they do, they don’t consistently use) the DLNA words “server”, “renderer” and “controller”. Nor do some realize that many components can do more than one of these functions. I’ll avoid defining or using those words here.



I was answering a question about using DSD with the bridge and the DS.



In general DoP isn’t used in files (tho they can be), DoP is usually used on the fly to wrap DSD for easy handling by legacy hardware than can pass 176.4kHz PCM but not raw DSD.

The bridge is “DoP” agnostic. It doesn’t notice that DSD is involved at all. It passes DoP unmolested, but it can’t convert to or from DoP. The DS is the recipient of a DoP stream and, for example JRMC, foobar2000, etc. can be the source of a DoP stream.

I never make a DSD to wave conversion (short of the DS itself.) JRMC can do the DoP wrapping of DSD, then the bridge just doesn’t care or interfere.



If we are talking about the PWD, neither it nor the bridge will convert DSD (or DoP) into PCM. But this topic is in the DirectStream category…


#19

Thanks Ted…I don’t know much about all this. What I do now is stream from my PC/NAS via PLC to the PWD/Bridge 1 in the next room (Ethernet). I use JR 19 Media Network as a DLNA controller. It is set up to convert my flac files to 24bit wav on the fly. I have enabled “Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)” for when I get the DS kit.

Yesterday I bought the hi res DSD version of the Steely Dan album Gaucho from Acoustic Sounds. It’s a dsf file. I knew it would not play on the PWD. I got it in anticipation of the DS upgrade.

So when I get the DS, do you think it will play back OK with the settings I have described? I am using Bridge 1. It would upset me if I needed, say, Bridge 2 to make it work.

From what you are saying it appears all I have to do is enable Bitstream DSD and disable convert to wav on the fly.

You are correct in that I don’t really understand server, renderer, controller. I don’t really want/need to. I want to update to DS and put it back and have it work with a minimum of fuss. Thanks again.



Ross







#20

I think your settings are close for the DS. I’m not the best one to exactly verify your settings since I only use JRMC every now and then (tho I have streamed DSD via the bridge and USB using all of the drivers with JRMC 18 and 19.)