I’ve just received my DSjr and am really loving it
I am running Roon via Bridge (on a wireless extender) directly into a pair of Atsah 500s which are driving Spatial Hologram M4s.
If I turn the attenuation off I get moderately loud white noise from the speakers (with nothing playing). I can clearly hear it from across the room 4-5 metres away. When I engage attenuation the noise almost completely disappears even when I’m right next to the speakers.
Is this static the noise floor of the system being exposed and that’s exactly why the attenuation feature is there? Or is it showing up because there’s something amiss in the system, maybe dirty power or something?
Yes, the attenuator is there for systems which are sensitive enough that the noise is bothersome when it’s not used. It attenuates both the signal and the noise 20dB. DSD inherently has a higher noise floor than PCM and tho this noise can be filtered out, such filtering also tends to take away from the music.
Hi Ted, I’m also getting “white noise” from my speakers between tracks but don’t like to use the built in attenuator as it means I have to wind the volume up to around 90 to get a decent level - and I’m then terrified of accidentally hitting the filter button on my remote and frying my speakers.
I see that Rothwell sell a high quality XLR -10db attenuator which I think would get over this problem - I’d be able to leave the DS attenuator off and reduce the white noise. It would also mean I could wind the volume up a bit (I’m currently playing at around 50) without risking the speakers.
Is there any downside to this - could the XLR attenuators have a detrimental effect on the sound quality?
The downside of an inline attenuator is often more the extra connections: if the sound is worse just unplug and replug to see if you can get a firmer connection.
But you might consider that if you ever do accidentally hit the “filter” button you’ll hit it again quickly Even if you were really rocking out, I doubt that you’d hurt the speakers with a short burst of loudness. I’ve never hit the filter button by accident, but YMMV.
I have occasionally pondered the value that a physical switch for locking the output into low mode might provide. It just has to pull the relay closed. Maybe for a future product revision.
dvorak said
I have occasionally pondered the value that a physical switch for locking the output into low mode might provide. It just has to pull the relay closed. Maybe for a future product revision.
Being pedantic: we use latching relays (they remember their current states with no power.) To keep the contacts in good order we toggle them twice at each startup which couldn't be done if there was a physical override. I'll think about some way to do something equivalent.
jimmy.kl said
I think the same could be accomplished with software – a 'disable attenuator remote' option in the menus somewhere?
It all depends on whether you trust a software solution - there's always a higher chance that something goes wrong in the software than in hardware. On the other hand it's a little late for a hardware solution in the already built devices :)
dvorak said
I have occasionally pondered the value that a physical switch for locking the output into low mode might provide. It just has to pull the relay closed. Maybe for a future product revision.
Being pedantic: we use latching relays (they remember their current states with no power.) To keep the contacts in good order we toggle them twice at each startup which couldn’t be done if there was a physical override. I’ll think about some way to do something equivalent.
jimmy.kl said
I think the same could be accomplished with software – a 'disable attenuator remote' option in the menus somewhere?
It all depends on whether you trust a software solution - there’s always a higher chance that something goes wrong in the software than in hardware. On the other hand it’s a little late for a hardware solution in the already built devices
I too have the same white noise experience. To remove the noise from my speakers even after switching ‘off’ the DSjr via remote I have to hit the Attenuator switch to Low and then power off. It’s an extra step on shutdown and on, but it is the only way to quiet the system. So if there is something that could be done programmatically in a future version that would be great.
I too have the same white noise experience. To remove the noise from my speakers even after switching ‘off’ the DSjr via remote I have to hit the Attenuator switch to Low and then power off. It’s an extra step on shutdown and on, but it is the only way to quiet the system. So if there is something that could be done programmatically in a future version that would be great.
Hmm, the power off should mute the DAC (which uses a relay to short the output.) But as I test it here the relays don't even click when I press mute - I don't know when that bug crept in... We'll fix it.
Was wondering about the gain function on the DAC. When on high there is a white noise coming from speakers. Can be heard from 4 ft. However further out cannot be heard. When on low it’s silent. The instructions read there should be “no sonic penalty” from the low setting. I like the fact that in low the music seems to coming from complete silence. But the sound is better when on high level IMO. Anyone else have the same experience and will a power regenerator stop the white noise in high level output but keep the sonics? It is a white noise that I’ve heard on most equipment It’s not a hum or buzzing. The sound is still better than I’ve ever had so I don’t think there’s a problem.
Most of the white noise in the DS Jr is from using video opamps as digital switches. The DS Sr uses four in parallel to lower that noise by 6dB and that requires an analog power supply that can handle four times the current. Since the DS Jr needed to be at a lower price point it couldn’t afford that particular noise reduction and hence has more intrinsic noise.
I cannot hear the noise from 4-5 meters away. That sounds very bad. But from one foot at night I can. This may be because of my speakers I suppose. Martin Logan Motion 35 xti. Not the most expensive in the land ya know. Now I fear upgrading my speakers.
White noise is nothing to worry about. If the noise isn’t correlated with the signal the brain filters it out almost effortlessly (it does that all the time anyway.) It’s when the noise has things like hum, tweets, color that it interferes with appreciating music, etc.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big proponent of lowering noise and I do it with each release of software and hardware. But you don’t want to lower noise at the expense of loosing dynamics, the boogie factor, the joy, … of the music.
If you don’t notice noise at the listening position the noise is probably not a problem at all. Changing speakers, amps, etc. won’t get rid of noise that comes from devices upstream (in this case the DS Jr.)
What I meant by upgrading speaker fear was buying $10,000 speakers would increase the noise to 4-5 meters. Then it would fall into listening distance. I do not notice the sound from two feet away so I’m happy. Thanks for the reply Ted. And a great DAC.
I have DSD Sr. with BHK preamp. I hear a little noise at 1ft. and know it’s the tubes. I am not bothered and the preamp is definitely a keeper.
You have excellent speakers, by the way.
Even if you were really rocking out, I doubt that you’d hurt the speakers with a short burst of loudness. I’ve never hit the filter button by accident, but YMMV.
)