Dutch & Dutch 8c

pmotz

Have you seen this review of the 8c?

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@kylemillsap I am more interested to see how they sound thru the XLR inputs. I donā€™t have anything that has AES output and I also need a HP amp anyway so the BHK solves both those requirements. The D&D do not have any of the other normal inputs (USB, Coax, I2S, etc.)

@badbeef Everything I can gather gives the D&D a few better points on being more full range (bigger drivers) less sharpness of the top end and more power which always means more headroom. The room isnt small (~16ā€™ X 26ā€™ x 11ā€™ ceilings but the furniture placement is not my decision and the speakers need to work close to the wall which these seem to excel at. We stayed in Petoskey for a week a couple years ago and took 119 up toward Cross Village but never made it all the way. There is a ā€œdark skyā€ state park around there somewhere but I have forgotten where exactly. One of my employees is a full on stargazer. I thought about using a Sprout to power this system at first but decided against it for some reason.

@Rudolf_Appel Thanks for contacting them about the mentioned issues. I originally planned on using the XLR inputs (still maintaining channel separation via the DSD or BHK). For some unknown reason I have a good feeling about these speakers. I cant find anyone who has heard them have anything bad to say and I have looked as much as possible.

@badbeef They have a software adjustment for wall rear spacing from 10cm (~4") to 80cm (~32") or ā€œopenā€ which is more than 80cm. I will fuss around with the wall spacing as I do have a little freedom there. The main issue with this particular room is there are a lot of windows. Itā€™s all about the view 'ya know?

@pmotz I did see that review and just read it again. That guy is a no bullshit scientific reviewer with the knowledge and experience to back it up. I have read some of his other reviews and DSP how toā€™s. Thanks for pointing it out.

I still cant find anyone who dislikes there speakers so I think I am going to give them a try.

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Enjoyed the reviewā€¦thanks for postingā€¦

Did you take a peek at the embedded video? That was some serious driver excursion going on there!

Regards.

@pmotz Hessel is a nice area. There is a truck stop on the highway in the Hessel area that has some of everything from diesel fuel to fried chicken to movie rentals to bait. Forgot the name of it.We have some friends in DeTour that own a campground we stay at when we are in the area.
D&D recommends the listening distance be at least 1 meter from the front of the speaker for best results. I guess if you can be 1 meter or more away the room is big enough. :slight_smile: Vandersteens are highly regarded but not an option this time.

Yes I did, though I only did a quick scan if it. This review and the Darko one were very favorable and both compared to the kii 3. Sure is tempting, though neither speaker is available locally. That might be a good thing ā€¦ keeps temptation at bay!

The Cedar Pantry in Cedarville, been there many times. With respect to the the rear wall distance the FAQ section of the D&D website says the following:

Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers perform best when they are placed relatively close to the rear wall. 10 to 50 cm will give you the best performance. You can use the app to select the distance to the rear wall, in order to give you the best experience possible.

Thatā€™s pretty darn close which I found surprising. Of course, you have to get them in your room to verify if that is the best distance. Hope you enjoy them!

Good for you @Baldy. We surely look forward to hear your personal impressions from your listening room.

You know what, I am looking for solutions to close wall placement and apparently the Dutch & Dutch 8c seem to be a very appropriate solution.

I always liked active concepts.

Due missing real estate in The Netherlands we have no other choice than to place our speakers close to the wall or fix them to the wall.

If you need a passive solution to that Alaudo from van Duppen in Venlo, The Netherlands has a solution to that.

Alaudo wall speakers

Still hope to have a chance to listen to the PS Audio speakers as well. 10k is quite some money for which I still need to safe up. It would be a once in my life time purchase and I will consider that very carefully. And servo driven close cabinet bass concept with bass coupler is also very attractive.

@pmotz The Cedar Pantry is correct. I couldnā€™t remember the name. What a busy place.
We looked at houses from the bridge all the way to DeTour but never did find the right one. Itā€™s very beautiful country and great people.
The D&D are not available locally to me either. The dealer is in Nashville, TN but they come with a 30 day money back guarantee. All I have to do is pay the return freight.
@Rudolf_Appel I will let you know how they sound when I get the system together. I looked at a lot of speakers for this setup and the D&D were the best solution I could come up with. I am also very interested in the PSA AN series and may get a set for my primary system when they become available and are fairly bug free.

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@Baldy, yeah, kind of weird. Iā€™m sure they are going to sound excellent, however you implement them. Enjoy!

Hi @Baldy did you receive your D&D yet?

@Rudolf_Appel
I got them hooked up the other day. They sound glorious. You address each speaker via a web browser. You tell each one whether the are left or right, how far from the front wall (10-80cm or ā€œopenā€ if more than 80 cm), how from the side wall (same range). There are 24 user adjustable audio filters that can be set using measured data or ā€œby earā€. I originally thought there were 14. There is also an old school ā€œtreble, mid, bassā€ tone controls. Each speaker also has a volume or gain control so you can adjust the DAC and or preamp volume controls where you want them to be and then adjust the speaker volume where you want the level to be. Right now I have the DAC and preamp both on 100. Pretty cool to be able to do that.
I do have Belden BAV XLRā€™s to them but no fancy power cables, interconnects, CAT, or power supplies yet but they are definitely keepers. It is a very simple and amazing sounding system. I told Richard that one of my tests is going to be to run XLR from the Matrix AES2 port to one speaker and a jumper XLR to the other and see what difference might be from removing the DAC and preamp and just running Roon Nucleus + > Matrix > D&D. Really happy so far. I have the system playing Roon radio continuously for a few days to break everything in for what difference that might make.

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@Baldy thank you for the great feedback. With Roon Nucleus + Matrix x-pdif2 + D&D it makes sense, do you use this configuration only to burn in? If I remember correct you mentioned youā€™d like to use them with your PS Audio DSD and BHK Pre.I would be very curious if that sounds better,.

Enjoy that wonderful system.

I will remove the DSD and BHK preamp as an experiment in the future but for now they are both staying in the chain. I am playing a continuous Roon radio stream to break everything in for a week or two. It sounds so good now Iā€™m not sure it can get much better but Iā€™m sure there is always room for improvements even if they are small.

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Along with all the other parts in those things, theyā€™re still speakers, so the drivers and their surrounds can use the exercise ; )

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Good to hear, I am contemplating to pair them with the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, and use the Analog balanced out. I need the analog pre amp also for my turntable and I like the sound of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC.

There is no way to by-pass the internal DAC of the 8Cā€™sā€¦ it will always be in play, no matter what DAC you use upstream.

So if using an external DAC with the 8Cā€™s, you will always have:

  1. D-to-A, then
  2. A-to-D (canā€™t be by-passed) and then
  3. Another D-to-A (8Cā€™s internal)

The only reason to add an external DAC with 8Cā€™s (in my opinion) is for a pre, for volume control and multiple inputs.

I believe D&D are working on a digital pre, which will output AES3 digital and have remote volume control.

In the mean time, this miniDSP product will do that too (keeping everything in digital domain and with remote control for volume):

And features Dirac for an automated digital room EQ solutionā€¦

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That digital pre should have to offer analog inputs, otherwise I need that STELLAR

Dutch & Dutch are NICE!
Iā€™ve wondered how they would compare to Watkins Gen. 4 or some of the Salk offerings.

Enjoy! Turn it up & Kick-back!

I purchased a pair of 8cs that will be delivered next week. I plan to run them from the AES/EBU output of my Matrix from my ROCK at first. To those of you who have them, what stands are you using? I have ordered Skylan. Noel makes stands with top plates that fit the dimensions of the 8cs.

Edit: I do plan to try them as Roon endpoints once the code is complete.

I am using these el cheapo Pangea stands that I filled with sand and made some larger top plates for. I also have the GAIA 2 isolators on the bottom.
They seem to be a good match for the D&D. I think you will really like the D&D 8cā€™s.

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