Hi everyone
I heard a set of Dutch & Dutch 8c speakers the other day and I’m tempted to offload my BHK250 and buy a set. Has anyone had any experience with them?
I’m thinking I might keep my DSD and BHK pre to run into them. Mainly thinking of doing this so I have a physcial volume knob / remote and the abiltiy to use HT bypass.
Active speakers, especially wireless, are convenient and have good aesthetics. They will give you flexibility to relocate your hi-fi stack. Some big names are there. They have come a long way in the design and production of active speakers with DACs and remote controls, so all you need is a streamer and you’d have a minimalist system. However, because of heat and space considerations, they use class D amplification. So, you would hear quite a different sound when leaving your BHK250.
It is incorrect to call them a pair of active speakers. They are far more than that. The most obvious and intended way to use them is to plug in an ethernet cable and you’re done. Besides the actual sound quality, the main feature is the DSP/room correction. The whole idea of the 8c is that they are tuned to your room. The conventional approach is to tune your room to the speakers. 8c, which are designed as much for studio as domestic use, are designed to be tuned to the room. The actual processing is done by a digital crossover. The equalisation process is not like Dirac that adjusts over the entire spectrum, its very similar to what Devialet have just implemented, where you adjust for peaks and troughs individually, and you can do each channel separately.
You can use an external DAC, Darko used his DSD DAC, but I don’t see the point. Analogue signals are digitised anyway, and I have no problem with that at all.
An external pre-amp really should be ancient history with hardware like this. It’s app controlled, you need the app to program the system, and 99% of users will be controlling it from an app. The remote app does not have to be connected to the internet, so you can use and old phone or tablet with no password barrier and no interruption from other mobile services.
You don’t need a streamer. I think they are now Roon Ready, or at least in beta. That was my main reason for not having a home demo, I’ve heard them in a studio but that doesn’t really count.
I’ve not had any issues with Class D amplification for the more than 10 years that I’ve been using it. The main difference in sound will be with your current speakers, whatever they are.
I delayed on a demo because last year they could not be demonstrated with Roon. Now that my Devialet system has almost identical DSP software, the raison d’etre has largely gone.
The 8c also offers superb value for money.
The idea of having 8c AND a hi-fi stack makes no sense to me. The whole idea is to input a digital stream and output highly dynamic room-corrected sound. You don’t need any other components to do that.
This is why I told him he will have a minimalist system with speakers and a streamer only 
Dynaudio provides room correction, with wireless streaming capability.
For those with turntables like you and I, and for those who love physical media, may be! 
Thanks everyone for your responses.
The main rationale with my thinking of using the BHK pre is having switching capability between HT and 2ch. It also gives me a knob / remote to control volume (I dont like the idea of digital volume control!).
I hear Dutch & Dutch are going to release a preamp that will probably solve the problem and make the BHK pre redundant in this setup longer term.
I have been using Class D amplification for a few years as well. But, it does sound different from Class A!
Very good point. I considered that. You can run in one balanced connection, so you need a phono amp with balanced output. There are various options, I had the Cyrus Phono Signature or PSA Stellar Phono in mind if I went that way.
I’m using Class A/D hybrid. Linn was pure Class D. I did briefly have Class A valves. They have too many limitations.
DSP is becoming the norm these days.
Yep, I already have (and really like) the BHK pre so will use that for now. If things don’t work out at least I’ll still have my favorite preamp.
Another option that could be good is a preamp with digitial in / out. Will need to have a look at what is available in this category.
I have the 8cs and they work very well. The latest version of code is integrated with REW so room correction is much easier. I moved into a new home last week. Yesterday I used REW with the 8cs to set up my new listening room. The whole process took 15 minutes.
Thanks @tmurray1. How do you run the 8c’s? Are you using an external preamp for multiple inputs?
Also, can you offer any views on how the 8c’s rack up against other high end systems?
I do digital only sources. I have my NUC running Roon connected to a Matrix X-SPDIF 2. From it I run AES to the 8cs. I replaced a DSD Sr., SGCD, M700s, and Ohm Walsh SSC-4900s. It is far superior as you would expect given the room correction capabilities. I am waiting for the 8cs to be Roon ready so I can take the matrix out of the chain and relocate my Roon core out of the room.
Fantastic feedback. Thanks.
Did you find cabling (Ethernet, power cables, XLR’s) made much difference?
Cables made a big difference for my separates. With the 8cs I use BAV XLR for the AES and inter-speaker cables. These will go away when the speakers are roon ready. I have an etherregen to isolate the ethernet and a Teddy Pardo PS for my NUC in my Akasa fanless case. I also use NRG .1 CS power cables for the 8cs. They made a difference. I run everything off my P5.
Certainly an improvement.
It is always interesting how one can address peaks, but how difficult it is to minimize troughs. As in this example, the troughs often become deeper (e.g., around 60Hz). Dumping more energy into them accomplishes nothing good.
Agreed. I plan to listen for a while and determine if I want to tweak anything. As you said, addressing dips is very difficult. I really wanted to address those nasty peaks.
I am sorry, don’t these top out at 48/24 (at least momentarily)? M Mensink has the tendency to be a bit elusive about this.
