Ethernet Cables and Sound

3600 (3612 and 3613) has 3.6 Gb/s and 4800 (4812 and 4813) / DT600e (7852A and 7851A) has 4.8 Gb/s with the CURRENT PAM encoding protocol. Almost there with no changes at all as this includes the wider tested BW up to 625 MHz.

DT600e is the best Ethernet cable currently ever made. If you want to get the best go with 4800 or DT600e series. The PAM voltage step encoding protocol can be altered to improve the bit rate for existing cables, so it may not be a cable change, which they want to avoid. The NIC card has to be changed out, not the cable if you have true CAT6 and want 2.5 Gb/s speed with a new NIC card.

The current 802.3bz requirement are 2.5Gb/s over Cat 5e or 5Gbps or Cat 6.
They use 10G type PAM encoding, but cut the signal rate to one-quarter or one-half.
This drops 10G to 10/4 and 10/2 Gb/s. And, UTP works fine!

This is WORST case 328 meter qualification channel with 90 meters horizontal and 5 meters of patch at each end (100 meter standard channel). The shorter you go, the easier it is.

So there you have it.

Best,
Galen Gareis

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Grabbed an Audioquest Cinnamon it was a great upgrade but I kept that box squeaky clean for it’s next owner. At the time Wireworld had 1 meter Starlight7 bulk cable for $20 but I was broke and the bulk cable quickly went bye bye. The bulk came back recently and snatched a foot of Starlight8 as fast as I could click, for $18 and opted for connectors on Amazon for like $14(2). Ridiculous improvement without any burn-in. If anyone wants to, you’ll have to settle for the Platinum Starlight8 for $180 1 foot. There are 8 tiny wires you don’t have to strip, they just magically stab into them inside the connector.

i could never believe that ethernet cables make a diff in sound quality.
They f**** do!!!
I hag got the 6a cables from blue jeans. They were connected to the dsd from a orbi satellite.
I changed it to the ‘ribbon’ style cable i got from netgear - and boy did the sound BLOOM.
ive been a computer / networking geek for 20 years and boy have i learned something tonight!!!
Im thinking of trying the certicable 7 …
ethernet cables !!!

Welcome to the club. To the listeners club,that is. You can always go science and data route,meaning things are backed up by measurements and fancy drawings why one is better than other. And be happy. Or you can try and listen…
Yes there are big differences between ( also ) ethernet cables. Have fun finding the best for you.

The biggest improvement is imaging on the Certicable 7A with more space around instruments and vocals for me. It really improved the noise floor lowering it substantially. I would say results would vary on your EEE environment. But with me it way outperforms ribbon cable type I think it is foil and wire mesh combined shielding. Inakustik uses a 7A cable in there referenz line led me to try the Certicable 7A as a budget alternate other than a carbon dampening fabric braid very similar construction. . I like inakustik USB cable and they are respected but cables hard to find many in US but great products. Looking to buy there power cords they have a unique air separating design reminds me of Galen,s Iconoclast

@Vmax - thanks for the insights. Have you tried comparing them to any other Ethernet cables. I had the certicable, aq vodka, the ww starlight, purist audio and the terra grand (budget option) in mind.

My streaming (N+ >> Matrix >> DSD) from Qobuz has always been better than my DMP, even after I focused a lot of calories on power & power cords… hope PSA’s next CD player has better SQ… should be an interesting comparison.

AQVOX - CAT7 for 25 to 50 cm Ethernet cables…
http://www.myhifishop.de/Cables/Digital-Cables/AQVOX-LAN-EXCEL-High-End-Network-Cable-Cat-7::12.html
Certicable - 100ft bulk
https://certicable.com/cat-7/cat-7-bulk-cables/100-cat7-cat-7-shielded-copper-cable-10gb-10-gigabit-ethernet-also-for-video.html

Telegartner J45 connectors




Here are the 25cm AQVOX CAT7 cables & Certicable w/ Talegartner connector use -



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That is beautifully arranged system. No messy cable spagetti.
Have you compared those Aqvox cat cables to any other ? Reason I ask is that even though I´m very happy with my current Sablon Audio Panatela and Inakustik Referenz combo with Aqvox switch ,is that maybe there is better synergy with full Aqvox loom ?

Sablon makes sound that is big in all dimensions,very clean and not etchy or snappy with good frequency extensions and resolution.Smooth and pure. Good for classical if that can be said,and making cleaner sound all around.

Inakustik is fast ,robust and snappier with harder,more solid and tighter character ,more rock and roll. So combining these two has been good match for me.

But when does an audiophool settle…never :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

@Somppsa - when setting up the AQVOX-SE and Giga FOIL components, the output Ethernet cable should be as short as possible according to the vendors. Therefore I opted for a 50cm to Giga FOIL and even shorter 25cm AQVOX CAT7 cable from the output of the Giga FOIL to N+. I have not tried any other Ethernet cable mainly because my streaming sounds so amazing. The soundstage is big; however, focused and very coherent (real). Very, very detailed, with amazing micro-dynamics, zero edge with great detail and clarity. Super delineation and space between instruments and the micro-dynamics just pull you in and you forget you are critiquing your system. There is zero fatigue even after a whole day listening. However, the SF Guareni EVOs w/ REL subs have a lot to do with a lack of fatigue. I just went Iconoclast SPTPC bi-wire from BHK300s to my EVOs and picked up a lot of midrange nuance. A smaller more sophisticated SQ jump. Therefore, with the performance I get with my streaming I’m not looking to A/B Ethernet cables. My system is exactly where I want it for this step in its evolution. Each Ethernet component in the chain has it’s own separate LPS; single bank super cap output (amazing dynamics) with traditional galvanic isolation and ultra low noise floor. My streaming is much better than DMP so I have not tried any other cable. In 2020 I will be moving to Pink Faun 2.16X streamer w/ Ultra OCOX oscillators (<-140dBc/Hz phase noise) and will test their Ethernet galvanic isolation against my “shinny little boxes” and see if I keep the AQVOX-SE and Giga FOIL filter. In the end, running router to streamer, to DSD is the goal. It has taken me a year from start of the hobby to this point and I think another year to get there. Also, the chain is GbE as LEDs indicate on all components. Strange how every component has their own LED coding, no real standard. One thing I have learned along the way is power is the basis for all signals and really spending the time and resources pays off. I hope PSA’s next CD player has better performance than this DMP… that will be interesting. That PF 2.16X is an amazing streamer with very serious focus on special Linux OS and HW built from the ground up with no stone unturned: cables, power, noise reduction, data transfer… and look forward to testing the HQPe on the back end of Roon. I love my N+ and have owned it for a year. Not one single issue w/ HW and SW, even when updating SW earlier this year. ROCK Roon has been a pleasure using and made a Roon lover out of me. The SQ has been tremendous; however, dying to see this PF 2.16X performance.

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I got a email response for an Inakustik referenz US importer. I think I will have a go with Inakustik ethernet cord and HDMI cord. The improvement over the Certicable on ethernet construction appears to be silver plated conductors and an additional layer of shielding. The HDMI I will compare to wireworld offerings. The ones I like best will be used for 2.0 channel audio. The loser goes to home theater audio and video streaming.

FWIW and now that i am scratching my head trying to make sense of this:

  • the free CAT 5E ribbon like cable that came with the netgear orbi sounds better than the Tera Grand 7 CAT cable.
    I dont know whats the deal but both the 7 and bluejean 6A appear to have layer of haze/muffle on them which just lifts when i plug in the 5E.
    I dont know if its to do with shielding, grounding, the orbi satellite port or voodoo!!!

Thanks for very thorough explanation cardri. My thoughts are the same,i am investing nowadays only / more and more to streaming and all that connects to it. Just because i either can’t have same sound out of any cd player or transport as streaming does. As strange as it sounds,but that’s how it is,plus the convenience of use.

With top notch streamer like Pink Faun 2.16x or any other flag ship model will surely increase sq to much better level again.

For me one of the biggest sq improvement or change is ethernet cabling. What cable from router to switch and from switch to pc and streamer. I have a few different lengths and brands to play with and i can’t honestly hear big if any difference with length ( 0.5m to 3.0 m ) but different brand cat cable and it’s totally different sound.

Mixing and matching cat cables has given best sq so far,all of them same brand…and not so good.

My plan is to try Aqvox and / or SOtM dcbl7 next.

Anyone own or compared the two ?

Well, so far we have people who think 5e is better than CAT7 and the other way around. But, the data supports that SHIELDS are NOT going to IMPROVE the signal quality, but the very opposite in a noiseless world. The math and calculations show exactly that. SHIELDS are a benefit ONLY if you have noise sever enough to drop the Ethernet error correction to below the requirements, which is exceedingly rare.

CAT 7 uses the fact that removing internal pair-to-pair NEXT allows an improvement in S/N that exceeds the DAMAGE the shields do to impedance uniformity and return loss performance. RL (lost by reflected energy) gets worse, but the S/N gets better so there is an overall improvement. For FTP, or overall shielded cable the shield hurts internal NEXT by up to 6 dB on average. That fact means you have 6 dB MORE noise to be shielding to break even in performance. The advantage has to be from high terrestrial interference. The internal design of the FTP cable pairs and shield is super critical to work well as the NEXT is not going to be as ultimately good as UTP. But, it is still well above what Ethernet requires to meet BER standards. Generally, if you start with CAT 6 UTP and apply a shield, it is 5e internal Shannon’s law BW cable, But, it won’t change with higher external noise so that’s the reason to use it.

The basic tenant is simply how far above the noise is the signal? The signal DOES NOT KNOW how it got to the level it is any more than the noise does. Shannon’s law (the cable’s theoretical BW) is based off of where the signal and noise are.

A shields geometric variation from the core components negatively impacts the cable impedance, and signal transfer and eventual BER erosion, far more than the pairs C-C does (see the graphs). But, if we DO NOT have a shield, the C-C is more important and the influences on RL for the same error in geometry and are less severe (graph). How much does the impedance CHANGE with each mil of dimensional variation? External shields are far worse than C-C.

The closer the ground plane (shield) to the core components, the more severe the variation impacting the cables stability. But, this RL signal and attenuation loss (shields INCREASE attenuation!) has to be measured AGAINST the internal NEXT and external noise. So does all the bad stuff still represent more good stuff with the bad? If you have NOISE than yes, it can. No noise obviously means no. All Ethernet cables have some internal NEXT “noise” so even with no external noise we have some inductive signal “noise”.

CAT7 was popular in Europe for several good reasons. They can’t throw miles of cable away. Cable’s were made as good as possible so they stay in service longer. This means 22 AWG to offset shielding effects on attenuation was used, and both INTERNAL / EGRESS and EXTERNAL / INGRESS shields were designed in from the start.

Once the NIC card sees the data relative to the noise it has no clue if it was CAT5e to CAT7 that got it there. None. It sees the Shannon’s law BW levels and the BER that follows that value.

I use Ethernet power-line adapters, W10 PC to a Bridge II with 26 AWG UTP stranded patch in my DS DAC. This is worst case…on purpose. It sounds wonderful. Yep, the changes are SOURCE derived, not the bit stream. Audio does not come remotely close to exceeding 10baseT Ethernet BER requirements for bit perfect error free streaming.

A cable’s ultimate performance is simply the Shannon’s law BW
Belden series 1200 = 1.2 gb/s
2400 = 2.4 gb/s
3600 = 3.6 gb/s
4800 = 4.8 gb/s

It does not matter HOW you get there, the S/N determine how the bits and BER will end up. Since Digital is really analog superposition to create our square waves, Ethernet cable is measured in the ANALOG domain, too. Every test is analog. And yes, this can be directly mapped to digital eye pattern tests to show the signal to noise performance.

I hate to bring data to the table of beliefs, but that’s what I do. ICONOCLAST does that. Rs indeed shows the impact of the BW linearity over lesser designs. It is MEASURED. So getting that right, and keeping R, L and C low requires unique designs. And, digital cables are like that, too. There are unique designs to increase the Shannon’s law BW and they are indeed measurable. Cable’s are not like us, they don’t whine, cry, laugh or smile. They are a product of their design, period. We can measure that. Even attributes we can’t yet measure are STATIC and will be consistent from location to location once proper inspections are defined.

Even with those “undefined” attributes the remaining ones have to be better to remotely work better. I’ve never seen this to be the case. I no magic variable that means we can toss one we currently know to impact transmission of analog or digital. None. Better is better.

Digital cables are hardly ignored. Ethernet has some of the best cable in the industry mass produced to keep costs down. This is a good thing, too. We all benefit from the high barrier of entry. Belden uses unique designs as physicals is indeed electrical. No way around that. This is NOT an opinion. It is physics.

I would use DT600e or 4800. 600e uses superior internal NEXT and 4800 uses superior attenuation with big copper to arrive at the same Shannon’s law bandwidth. They will work IDENTICAL delivering digital data! Where 4800 is useful is if you use POE and need low DCR for power over Ethernet. So again, differences can be MEASURED.

Hope this helps you all understand all this, it isn’t easy and no one really wants to make it so in Audio. I will never have a $3,000.00 digital cable, or even more dollars, as the Shannon’s law BW driven BER says we don’t need one. When we do, the VOLUME will drive the price. True, we can make placebo cables in small QTY that will indeed be $$$ but why? It isn’t better just more costly. which is true, but I want cable that WORKS better not just to be expensive. ICONOCLAST does cost more, but it is MEASURABLY better, too. I would love for it to be common enough to drop in price.

The digital stream is defined at the AD. It can not CHANGE the “sound” or something really creepy is going on. It streams 0 and 1…perfectly. The DA can indeed alter the sound as firmware changes the filters responses. This is NOT the cable in any way. The DS DAC has had several firmware changes…and the cables remained the same yet the sound changed. It is the FILTERS alterations, not the cable or Bridge II.

Analog cables have been ignored, so I took the time to re visit them and improve ONLY measured performance. That remains in the design, hear it or not…they are better. Digital has already been under intense pressure to improve and measurements show exactly that. So called audio digital baffles me as there are no repeatable improvement so who’s to say it improved anything? Oh, trust your ears. I do. I hear nothing using 5e and up digital cables.

Best,
Galen Gareis

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I wish I could say the same thing. Every ethernet cable sounds different in my system. The CAT5E’s even. After reading the different spins on audiophile boutique cables. Shielding is big, as is conductor size. Many versions of copper and silver plate. Plus some have what llok like ferrite beads. Shunyata seems to be only one that swears off CAT7 and up. The quietest CAT5E are ribbon construction. Any theories there? The twisted pair 5e have bloaty or flabby bass and lots of tape his on older analog recordings on my system and imaging gets all blended in.

OMG, so nothing to complain regarding vinyl hassle :wink: I hoped final streaming sound is easier…and Ethernet cabling is just one aspect.

It’s becoming apparent to me that it is just a different version of the same obsession. Hmmm…Shun Mook Discs or a Tice Clock anyone?

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It is all about selling stuff… analog, digital, cars, houses, jewelry… shoes, sneakers, watches…

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Thanks for the info Galen. where can i buy the DT600e or 4800 from ?

Echo, give Jeff, Andrew or Kurt a call at (206) 284-2924. This is the BJC office and they will happy to give guidance or to discuss what might be best. Absolutely no risk.

Thank you.

Bob

Thank You