Excellent video- RMAF DSD conference - Industry admits many SACD's came from 24/9k


#1
After watching the DS install video, youtube suggests a bunch of clips, one being the Rocky Mountain AUdio Fest from 2012 on DSD as an emerging format (and free from SACD as a medium)
It's 2 hours but I've almost watched it all.
It's got a great panel of luminaries in the recording world and mastering world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nj7d7Jnx0xc
Also around 1 hour ten mins in, Cookie Marenko and Bruce Brown admit many previous SACD's came from 24/96 files, and on some, HD tracks then ripped the SACD to 88.2 !!!

They strive to get the masters as much as possible (the labels often try to deter this (at least back in 2012) ) and CHad Kaseem retorts he only gets the analog master or won’t do the DSD project. (unless the master was lost).

.

NOTE: link is corrected and obviously I meant to type 96K in the title - I don’t think a sample rate of 9K would sound very good.


#2
emailists said
After watching the DS install video, youtube suggests a bunch of clips, one being the Rocky Mountain AUdio Fest from 2012 on DSD as an emerging format (and free from SACD as a medium)
It's 2 hours but I've almost watched it all.
It's got a great panel of luminaries in the recording world and mastering world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?f…..j7d7Jnx0xc
Also around 1 hour ten mins in, Cookie Marenko and Bruce Brown admit many previous SACD's came from 24/96 files, and on some, HD tracks then ripped the SACD to 88.2 !!!

They strive to get the masters as much as possible (the labels often try to deter this (at least back in 2012) ) and CHad Kaseem retorts he only gets the analog master or won’t do the DSD project. (unless the master was lost).

Would you please edit the Youtube link. It is broken.

Thanks.

Frode


#3

While we are on the DSD topic, here is a discussion from CA on SACD rips to DSD.

II wonder id there is any difference between dff and dsf at the same 64 or 128 level?

It seems dsf tagging is better supported and that it is ONLY the headers that are different so SHOULD be no SQ difference?

The CA thread talks about tics and pops going directly from ISO to dsf.

Anyone have experience building a library in either .xxx?

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd_extract-dsf-output-problem-18114/


#4

Honestly I have ripped about 100 sacd,s. Always to ISO to store and then DSF for playing . I never did any comparisons in sound quality. But I can say this process is not perfect and there are tracks that freeze players I have sometimes may loose some of the music. As regarding noise I have never heard any pops or clicks . My only gripe in the whole sacd thing is audio quality. Very few disk,s come close to good dsd 128 downloads from good sites. And not knocking hd tracks but they do stink in quality. As I have said before for me I am willing to learn to like good high quality music , but really do not like music I know and love that just stinks in quality . I think this is the price we pay for hi quality play systems . Most lower quality sounds fine in the car or lesser systems .

al


#5
emailists said
Also around 1 hour ten mins in, Cookie Marenko and Bruce Brown admit many previous SACD's came from 24/96 files, and on some, HD tracks then ripped the SACD to 88.2 !!!
Yes.

Additionally, since DSD cannot be edited directly, almost all DSD recordings spent part of their life either entirely as PCM or as PCM where the file was edited.

As yet another quirk, PCM ADCs first encode into pulse density modulation before mutli-bit decimation - blurring the distinction even further.

What matters to me is the quality and implementation of the DAC. PCM can sound superb, such played back by an MSB ladder DAC, or transcoded to DSD in the DS. SACD/DSD can also sound superb.


#6
Elk said Additionally, since DSD cannot be edited directly, almost all DSD recordings spent part of their life either entirely as PCM or as PCM where the file was edited.
This is not quite true: DSD can be spliced with only the 10ms crossfade being requantized and the rest left alone, so "purist" recordings can be edited with essentially inaudible splices. As well some feel that DSD (or PCM) is best served by doing all mastering in an analog mixing board - the conversion from DSD to analog and then analog back to DSD can be very clean - no PCM anywhere. Arbitrary math (including mixing and filtering) can be done as a "free" part of a sigma delta modulator (for why that matters:) I'll address things like this a little more in the DSD theory thread.

#7

Yes, this is why I noted “. . . or as PCM where the file was edited.” :)

Cookie Marenco of Blue Coast records is an advocate of the DSD - analog - DSD approach. The downside is the multiple conversions and, for some digital advocates, the inherent dynamic range and frequency response limitations of analog.


#8
Elk said Yes, this is why I noted ". . . or as PCM where the file was edited." :)
I noticed, but I wanted to make that more explicit. I should have chosen my words better to avoid any implication that you didn't know that or were trying to hide it.

#9

Perfectly fair and no offense taken. I often struggle with how much I should make explicit and how much I should assume the reader already knows. I appreciate others experience the same.

I find intriguing Pyramix, Sonic Solutions, Sonoma, and SADiE all have (or had) their own approach to editing.

As I recall, Cookie maintains that if a DSD is transcoded to PCM at any time and in any way it does not sound as good. Thus, she edits in analog.

The good thing is that all of the approaches sound great. :)


#10
Elk said Perfectly fair and no offense taken. I often struggle with how much I should make explicit and how much I should assume the reader already knows. I appreciate others experience the same.

I find intriguing Pyramix, Sonic Solutions, Sonoma, and SADiE all have (or had) their own approach to editing.

As I recall, Cookie maintains that if a DSD is transcoded to PCM at any time and in any way it does not sound as good. Thus, she edits in analog.

The good thing is that all of the approaches sound great. :)

Look up Dr. Diamond for some actual data on the subject (Actually I don’t know if his experience with different forms of SACD editing are published anywhere.) I remember when CDs first came out I (along with most) thought he was a crackpot. Now, years on, I can see that he was right on the money about the early CD players causing an uneasy feeling… I’m not a fan of any editing method that goes below that of single rate DSD, tho going below for just a moment to do a splice is probably harmless enough.


#11

I’ll do some digging. I may find his work.

Thanks!


#12

Another video to watch is the DSD panel from the last Rocky Mountain Audio Fest (RMAF 2013) held last October.

The panelists include Chad Kassem of Acoustic Sounds (introducing the then new Super HiRez downloads site) and Jared Sacks (owner of Channel Classics introducing the Native DSD.Com downloads site). There’s also some lively banter between Andreas Koch (Playback Designs and designer of the Sony Sonoma DSD Workstation) and John Siau (Benchmark Media Systems). Recommended viewing, even though a bit long!

On You Tube at httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGwon6FDBr4&list=UU74xmXx1NfeIIa44J1IU84w


#13

Who is chad Kassem. ?

Al


#14

He owns Acoustic Sounds.


#15

Well they way he is talking and the respect people gave him , he must reissue really good quality music. . I will check out his website now .

and thanks Paul

i just checked out his website. I have 4 versions of cat Stevens tea for the tiller-man. And not one including his version is from an analog master. How I know this is I was lucky to here the vinyl on a really good system and it bested anything I had . I guess in the end they did not give him the master tapes to work with.

al


#16

Oh yes, he’s the best. I order stuff from Acoustic Sounds and Cookie Marenco at Blue Coast records all the time. I don’t normally bother with anyone else.


#17

I just purchased 4 downloads this morning from acoustic sounds. The audio is very good and the choices are very surprising .

al


#18
alrainbow said I just purchased 4 downloads this morning from acoustic sounds. The audio is very good and the choices are very surprising .

al


Yes, they do have some excellent DSD Stereo Downloads on Acoustic Sounds. Which choices surprised you?