Paul McGowan said: the Bridge does not have the memory to support gapless.
As far as I remember, this is not a memory problem. Though, more memory wouldn't hurt ;-)
Anyway, we discussed this subject many times here...
As far as I remember, this is not a memory problem. Though, more memory wouldn't hurt ;-)
Anyway, we discussed this subject many times here...
Paul McGowan said: Remember that the guys at Sonore and Cullen are using off-the-shelf single board computers to do the work. That's fine, but it's going to be very difficult to make that work on the form factor we have to deal with on the bridge board.
Mmm... What about smartphones?
Paul McGowan said: The Bridge itself took several years, a V2 will take easily that.
From what I understand, the hardware is not a problem. The problem is lack of software development expertise, what affects other areas.
birddogthecat said: I am getting the W4S MS 3TB as soon as released and run through the PWD2 in NativeX bypassing Bridge & eliminating the computer.
A reasonable plan. What led you to decide on the W4S v. the Bryston or another product? I am drawn to the Bryston, especially the BDP-2 which can both incorporate an internal, SSD as well as connect to eternal drives.
Levi said: . . . .worked for one of the worlds leading automobile mfg's (Honda) in the late 80's and early 90's and saw first hand what it takes to revise/improve/implement and produce a "new technology"
Wow! I bet you have stories. Honda automotive at the time was cutting edge, especially in the early 1980's.
gravy said: Many common studio albums such as Dark Side of the Moon would also be unlistenable.
"Unlistenable?" A tad bit of hyperbole perhaps? Many classical recordings are gapless (including many I record and produce) but are hardly rendered unlistenable with a few unintended seconds of silence.
Many would like gapless and it is a laudatory goal. Many players do not support gapless however. It is additionally unimportant to many listeners, hardly the pinnacle of computer playback.
I find Dark Side of the Moon tiresome twaddle, gaps or not. I admit gapless would make the playback time a tad shorter and, thus, more tolerable . . . :)
Alekz said: Mmm... What about smartphones?
Many things can be accomplished with a development budget of $gazillions.
Find a way to divert one-tenth of Apple's mobile R&D budget to Paul and gapless will become readily achievable.
It is easier to criticize than create, however IMHO memory size can pose a challenge but it is just one of the variables, software and overall architecture should not be overlooked. FWIW my observation is that psa needs to reconsider its approach to software development.
It is easier to criticize than create, however IMHO memory size can pose a challenge but it is just one of the variables, software and overall architecture should not be overlooked. FWIW my observation is that psa needs to reconsider its approach to software development.
+1. I've beaten this drum before but I will again. PSA should go out and find the guys who used to work for Slimdevices, even if it means hiring them as consultants. They had the talent to design custom hardware and an open source based software server that did everything it needed to - including gapless - years before anyone else was even worried about stuff like this.
tony22 said: . . . including gapless - years before anyone else was even worried about stuff like this.
I have long wondered whether playback gaps showed up later with higher resolution, and other factors.
Many players currently have issues with gapless. Is this a new phenomenon? If so, why?
The CD was gapless from the beginning, because it truly is one continuous track, just like an LP. on the other hand, digital playback (computers and portable players) had pauses between tracks from the beginning until creative programmers figured out ways to remove them. For WAV and other uncompressed formats this was not terribly difficult, but for compressed formats such as MP3 it was not easy. Compressed formats require a preamble to the actual data content in order to get the decoder synched with the data stream.
As far as I know almost every portable music player available these days will play any of its file formats gaplessly, and this is done with the least amount of RAM and CPU that they can possibly use due to cost and battery constraints. Certainly less than the Bridge on both RAM and CPU. This is a software issue far more than a memory or compute power issue. More hardware may make it easier but is not necessarily a solution to the gapless issue.
J.P.
@elk Why the W4S MS3TB: I know Rick Cullen & his son Patrick. If Rick Cullen is involved with the development of the MS, and he is, you can be sure as it developes you get to go along for the ride just as is the case with the VPI philosophy. This is particularly important in the fluid environment of digital.
Both Steven R. & I have heard the W4S MS2TB at some of the shows. Very good sound, support, & R&D. I like the sound & philosophy of the company.
I am guessing that the Bryston may have the edge today but that can quickly change. Rumors abound of a MS2&3TB-SE version with upgraded everything. Again, when the SE is released W4S will bring you along for the ride.
I appreciate Paul’s efforts not to abandon the Bridge V1 owners. So many seem to want him to dump the V1 and move on to V2. Sounds like PSA will continue to support V1 owners as well as working on the development of V2. A class company for sure. B-)
@radioclash It’s more than just the Bridge V1 issue regarding WS. It is also being able to stream radio, Pandora, etc.
So even when the Bridge V2 is released, WS will be required to stream the various formats.
Elk said:Alekz said: Mmm... What about smartphones?
Many things can be accomplished with a development budget of $gazillions.
Very true, but my point is that embedded computer boards are available in so many formats and architecture, form factors, so it should not be a big problem to find something suitable. Of course, it's not easy. But what makes it much more difficult is the uncertainty about the software.
Also, the platform should be as less exotic as possible, because exotic manufacturers tend to disappear along with the support (exactly what happened with the Bridge).
radioclash said: Sounds like PSA will continue to support V1 owners as well as working on the development of V2.
Please define "support". UPnP is and most likely will be supported. If there is a hardware issue, I hope PSA will be able to replace the faulty component. The only big problem is gapless playback but there is a workaround - concatenate all tracks into one gapless album. Awkward, but it works.
The WaveStream will not help NAS owners, and from what I know PSA have no plans to work on a platform independent software (alas....).
Can memory be retrofitted onto or into the Bridge board. De-solder the current chips & install larger capacity ones?
"The WaveStream will not help NAS owners, …"
Surely if the NAS is accessible by a computer having the Wavestream ‘driver’ software then any player software can be used to play via the bridge? Sounds to me like an ideal situation for any NAS users (as distinct from users of stand-alone servers).
@birddogthecat I’d like to hear your thoughts on the W4S ms3 when you get it. Try to get a good HDMI cable and prepare to be wowed! If you get an opportunity ask Rick about his thoughts on the sonore 12V power supply upgrade… In my system it is nothing short of a stunning improvement, even as it continues to burn in.
@birddogthecat No That is the maximum the processor will support.
Thanks, Dennis.
stereophilus said: @birddogthecat I’d like to hear your thoughts on the W4S ms3 when you get it.
Me, too!
One thing to remember in all these discussions is that gapless via UPnP is very different than gapless on an embedded player like an MP3 player. To handle gapless on a UPnP streaming system there’s a lot going on. Each track of every song has to be requested from the server, gapless or not gapless. When a gapless command is issued the next track to be played must be requested, some of it loaded into the the Bridge and as soon as the current track is finished, the player needs to be closed then reopened and the second track loaded and begin playing without any pause.
Dennis can explain much better than I, but that’s the essence of it. In an embedded player there’s a very simple command to just ignore the space and keep playing. One’s tough, involves a lot of memory, commands and programming, the other is a simple exercise. That’s why only a few streaming players handle gapless as well as high resolution audio.
A very cogent explanation. 