Head-Fi (Purrin) review of DS

Give it a whirl. You may be surprised.

Ted Smith said Or design your room to not need DRC and then enjoy DSD the way God intended :)
Now we're talking!

Two thumbs way up!

DRC nay-sayers of the world unite!

Whoa!!!

Speaking of unhappy reviews -

http://www.vanityears.com/julymeet/Meet.html

Hey Ted, your famous! LOL

“I did not have my OR5 on-hand, but I can at least say that the PSA-DSD via USB input is kind of sucky. There aren’t too many out there, but there is probably a reason why we can already find a few for sale. Don’t be fooled by spastic bearded DAC engineers in YouTube videos.”

:)

Ouch. Well, you can’t win 'em all. And Ted is certainly not “spastic” so he must be talking about someone else.

There are people who just seem to LIKE that nice crispy PCM sound. :smiley:

J.P.

Geez, it’s one thing to not like a particular piece of kit, but I think the ad hominem was out of line. I wish people wouldn’t resort to personal statements like that. It cheapens any real evaluation of a product.

That said… sigh… I do wish the DS had the “bass impact” of the PWDII running 2.02, so I’d have to agree with whoever wrote that. Running the two units in an A/B comparison, the PWDII really did provide some ‘oomph’ that I feel is missing from the new DS.

The thing is, the new DS does so many other things right that it won handily in the comparison.

I’m still working on the room and speaker placements, but that’s all in an effort to get something a bit more dramatic on the low end.

Is there any possibility that a future firmware version might ‘voice’ a bit differently?

Would love to enjoy DSD “the way God intended,” whatever that is—grin—but in some rooms, it is just not practical. I have been pretty impressed with the DEQX Mate I have been living with for over a year now. It is a sophisticated piece of hardware and software. And it does wonders for the difficult room in which my main system resides. It has also been an interesting way to compare speakers. Anyway, do I wish I had a sonically perfect room? Sure, but I don’t, though in the next house, it is looking like something closer may be possible. I am looking forward to trying Teresonic Ingeniums in the new house, and I would not mind getting the DEQX out of that system. We shall see. In the meantime, I am waiting for my DS, and look forward to hearing the differences between it and the PWD2.

Welcome. Palerider!

I find it a tough call. There absolutely are rooms that will not sound good and/or where acoustic treatment is not an option. Yet, at least in my experience, DRC creates more problems with the sound that it solves. It is akin to increasing treble to create the impression of increased detail; initially appealing and then grating. But others really like it. YMMV

Welcome Palerider! :)

It sounds verbatim what that purrin guy said, with the jab at Ted

erikm said It sounds verbatim what that purrin guy said, with the jab at Ted
In these cases there are normally two outcomes;
  1. Being technical saavy or having an open mind and contribute in a meaningful way

  2. Hit the trenches and blame everyone else for your own lack of knowledge (this bitter attitude always gets ugly and personal)

It shouldn’t be too difficult to place this purrin guy in one of the above items, I presume.

Purrin tends to be very above board, direct and does not take cheap shots.

My guess is it is someone paraphrasing him, and then adding the gratuitous comment.

Ok update . I have spoken to him at length . Really nice guy and of course he has many more words to describe his views then I do , no surprise there . But he actually likes how he feels , he is not synical about his view at all. It is just he likes the Pwd mi more and the Pwd mkii over the DS. .but we must keep in mind he only listened to it at a mini meet for while and not at length at home or where ever . So not an owner. Now not to trash the Pwd dac line but there is just no comparison so if you like the other and this does not catch your ear and or brain then how can one be happy with this dac . Now other dacs he likes I own or owned as well as ones he dislikes . He did not like the mytek , no surprise to me there but he did not hear it play dsd so not a fair view . He likes a dac called the audio gd M7 . It’s nice dac and one I liked more than the Pwd mkii. But it lacks the hyper detail of the DS In a big way. Some say the DS is bright well I do not feel this way at all . One also had to consider the connection. He uses a offramp 5 as I do with the M7. It greatly improves it. But in no way to the level of the DS . Another point I made to him and we are polar opposites in this. Is the dsd he likes it better on the Hugo. But also admits the Hugo is more grainy but less detailed or bright. Well he had the grainy part perfect it is in comparison but the Hugo almost schrills on some music so no thank you . And I own it and use it daily with CIEMS thank god . Cause even with headphones it’s just not up to par for me.

Now I have said and still feel the DS does PCM very good but dsd not as improved over PCM as it should and I still feel this way. But I can say now that I a have a full caps unit going things have improved . I still feel it does PCM better but the dsd low level deatils have increased and the new 6115 over the 54 I had seems to make the presentation closer something I love. The level of clarity is very good . I own a B7 dac and it’s all tubes and Paul is right to be putting the tube frontend in the new amp . There is something about tubes that i am sure is coloring things but I guess it’s the colors I like anyway … Now this dac does best the PCM of the DS but I do feel it’s about the tubes doing it. All the timbre seems to be improved with the caps running In core mode maybe a tube pre amp will turn me around in the end . I can see one coming sooner or later . For the people who love measurements keep them to yourselves as my brain tells me this is special dac weather it’s loud or soft it’s just real to me. The small part I am missing fades quickly as time goes by as I feel what ever is left just gets better over just a few mins of listening (brain burn in lmao ). But if I go back to tubes I can hear and almost feel the difference . I have been using a phrase on some forums and I will try it here so please reply if you feel it’s wronge. I call what we like a choice and the choice is made by our brains as we like or dislike how or what we are hearing . So when someone likes one device over another it’s a choice but not a valentary one . So if purrin who i like , it’s his choice and that is really it. The same goes for reviews but they go deeper as I dislike most of them even if they favoring the product. Again maybe it’s there choice effecting there review get my point but I also feel other choices as well effect them and as such not sure. Now back to audio optimizer and dos cammands wow I hate dos even more than English. Very damn little dot or whatever matters .

Anyway as the family is way in NC still and I am stuck here in NYC it’s time to do all I like and listening and playing my toys is in season for a few more weeks and then it’s over. Ted , Paul and PS audio again thanks for great product and listening to many grips in the process .

al

All the welcomes are nice, but I have actually been a long time member of the forums and an owner of many PSA boxes. Something about my membership and the new forums did not work out, so here I am looking like the noob I sometimes feel like anyway. Still, I appreciate the traditional PSA hospitality.

Elk said Welcome. Palerider!

I find it a tough call. There absolutely are rooms that will not sound good and/or where acoustic treatment is not an option. Yet, at least in my experience, DRC creates more problems with the sound that it solves. It is akin to increasing treble to create the impression of increased detail; initially appealing and then grating. But others really like it. YMMV


I absolutely agree that YMMV, but certainly what a good DRC does is way more than sophisticated than treble boost, so much so that I find it hard to think of it as “akin.” I will say this for the DEQX Mate: it appears to have no impact on micro-detail or dynamics, no smearing, no constriction, and those are some of the classic effects of correction. One other difference of the DEQX is that it is not primarily designed to be DRC; it is digital speaker correction device first, focusing on phase coherence and timing correction of the speaker, with DRC capabilities, and then sub integration third. It was this approach that first drew me to the Mate, after I had tried a couple of other DRC devices, including DIRAC and DSPeaker, the latter of which was pretty darn good. But the DEQX was in a league of its own.

I hope to have the Ingeniums in my listening room this fall. And the spare time to listen. Will all be interesting.

I am afraid I was unclear. My example of mistaking boosted treble for increased detail is used as an analogy. People often believe they are hearing more detail, but are actually hearing increased detail.

Similarly, by analogy, I find DRC to do something like this. It initially appears to be providing increased transparency, etc. But, upon further listening, one can hear an artificial sheen, the battling of the room v. the processing, a certain type of room loading that creates a sense of physical pressure (I believe this is psychoacoustic rather than an actual physical effect.)

Sound reproduction is already artificial and contains many artifacts, such as manufacturing a soundstage - something which does not exist in the real world. DRC adds yet another level of artificiality.

But others love it. Go figure. :slight_smile: