We went to see Nora Jones last night,and while sitting there listening to her,and her superb band… I could not help but to think how much live music just absolutely trump’s recorded media via electronic playback. Without the human factor and the use of real instruments involved in a live musical experience… a recorded one just plain pales by comparison. Stereo is pleasing, but is no match for the real deal.
Wow it seems I was still wathing this thread. After a silence of five year the post’s of this thread have reached my mailbox again. At first I didn’t understand, but now I see. At the time my name was Wijnand, but the name at al my posts have changed in mark-f
The reproduced bass suffered the most (way too small for an auditorium - really need PA efficiency level of speakers).
Listening to a good system at home has its advantages, comfort and convenience being two of them. Unfortunately acoustics can be another advantage when playing in an arena type of venue.
As far as playback sound pressure levels go, I also normally listen at around 80 dB, but that is just an average and music is all about dynamics, so the actual, instantaneous range is probably more like 50 - 110 dB. Therefore I believe that a basic requirement for any hi-fi audio system is to reproduce live music levels at home (up to 110 dB).
I fully agree.
When I say, I might listen about to life levels up to a string quartet, I mean a string quartet played live in a larger room. Putting a string quartet in my listening room would be a bit louder quite sure.
Pretty sure it was just that no one posted for 6 years until yesterday. I often find the Forum software showing me threads I haven’t seen, and I sometimes end up replying to something written years ago, as it seems to start from the top if you haven’t read it. I was just about to do that here when I saw “6 Years Later” above biggarthomas’s post above.
A fair point. 
My greatest surprise was experiencing opera singers anywhere up close, even when they are singing art songs (more intimate) and not opera. I have played in pit orchestras, fairly removed from the singers. But up close these performers have incredible power. Astounding what the human body can do with training.
At least in my system, it is the height of the reproduction that suffers relative to live. My speakers are 45" tall and struggle with soundstage height. Maybe that’s because the ceiling in my room is 22 feet. I love my speakers but I believe you need drivers 6 ft off the ground to reproduce height. IMO if you’re seated 10ft from drivers that are 4 ft from the ground it’s going to be tough to recreate where the singer’s voice comes from. I’ve thought about trading the speakers in on a taller model.
I, too, hear soundstage height. Others argue there is no such thing.
I cannot recall the recording I heard at a dealership once where the height of the singer changed with each track. It was a weird experience.
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Many moons ago, was (as it turns out) one of the early adopters of a thing called The Listening System, which was a means of re-training the ears after exposure to loud music. It got applied to all sorts of things.
A number of other early adopters were opera singers, as they stand around all day next to other opera singers who are putting out shocking dB levels. Especially if you’re singing while in a clinch/doing a love scene or fight ; )
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It is the love scenes which must be terrifying - in an excessive dB sort of way.
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It makes intuitive sense that there has to be a height to an image. It is a sound in an acoustical space. When my dog barks I can hear not only whether he is in front of or behind me but whether or not he is laying down or on two legs. The sound has to emanate from different locations within a space.
I have heard systems that portray height correctly with the right musical material. Mine does not because I am close to the speakers and the highest drivers are less than 5ft off the floor. When I listen to Fleetwood Mac Rumors outtakes I can make out the performers in space almost perfectly but Stevie Nicks seems to be about 4 ft tall. I really think you need drivers from the floor up to about 6 feet to do it properly. When I listen on monitors on tall stands the height of the singers is closer to reality but the piano sounds like it is suspended in air.
I’ve been told I have a good ear, I assumed everyone could make out those kinds of things. Maybe not. I do think you can be trained to hear it. Fascinating discussion. 
This is interesting, as I was just talking with my brother, whose friend we recently visited has Sonus-Faber Aida 2’s, which have tweeters quite a bit higher than usual - at least compared with the vast majority of “tower” speakers in the World, and perhaps even including a number of other “uber” speakers, depending on design. Not sure, haven’t measured ; )
I found myself trying to half-stand up out of the low, comfy chair he had in the ostensible sweet spot. It was both in a bass null and quite a bit below where you should sit relative to the tweeters on those beasts. He got a taller chair : )
The room height thing is a whole 'nother deal. Ordinarily I would think a taller room would be good…
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I think a room with a 22’ ceiling should be good too, at least in theory. I have had better success in rooms with 15 ft heights but I had different speakers then. Some equipment reproduces height better than others as well. I can’t tell you for certain that it’s absolutely the speakers rather than the equipment, it’s just that I haven’t had much luck reproducing it fully without 6 foot speakers. I think tubes do it better than solid state but that’s just my opinion.
I am also using a Synergistic Atmosphere XL 4 in conjunction with other SR stuff which has an incredible effect on the perceived acoustical space. It killed me to have to buy it all because it’s as much as a BHK amp but it makes a huge difference, especially because my listening room stinks. Just my 2 cents.
Makes me wonder if the height could be noodled with by sitting (unnaturally) higher than usual and tipping the speakers back - even in standard height rooms with typical speakers. Both the listener and the speakers are usually occupying the lower half of the room, which is also often carpeted, while the ceiling often is all hard.
With flat-baffle speakers like my Harbeths, there could be the added benefit of time-aligning the drivers ; )
Digging out a barstool now… : )
EDIT: Finding cinder blocks for my footstool ; )
Another guy named Myers I know was over here a bunch trying out DSJr. Snowmass iterations, and width, depth and height were early indicators whether it was a “keeper” for the finalist list or not.
Sitting higher should make a difference. When I scrunch down low in my listening chair (no mean feat for me, LOL) the soundstage gets shorter. I’m in a pretty high listening chair. Not a bar stool, of course. As far as sitting further back, definitely changes thing especially if your speakers are tilted back like mine are. Given the size of the room and it’s openness sitting further back than I am (currently 9 feet) is less satisfying than being that close.
How far apart are the tweeters? Room width?
Hard to describe the room. The right wall when I am facing the speakers is an outside wall. I have ‘created’ a wall there by attaching a large acoustic baffle to the railing. That kinda, sorta creates a second wall but that’s only about 5 feet high so anything above 5 ft in height is unbounded on the left side.
The tweeters are 63" apart. There is no left wall, just an open railing that separates the dining room from the living room (where the system is). The room stinks. This is a rental (long story) and I told my wife I won’t buy a house without a downstairs dedicated listening room.
Well this is a painful yet fascinating experiment I’m embarrassed to say that I have not conducted much before.
Of course nearly EVERYTHING gets altered - your head’s position with respect to the Room, and especially to the subs, and the drivers in the speakers. All huge.
But the immediate takeaway would be more going on in terms of “height” in the room.
Could I figure out a way to live with it, and would the game be worth the candle…ehhh ; )
I have some of the same issues. Renting - maybe for the rest of my life. This place chosen for location rather than size - will likely move soon, as I need more space for several reasons.
Are those 10" woofers, or larger? I have this vague theory based on experience that speakers should preferably be placed not a lot closer together than 1’ per woofer inch, which gets into the whole Room Size Thing. Having come from a 17’ wide room where the Harbeths - which like more free space than average, not being inert cabinets) were comfortable - this 11’-wide room is pretty tight.