Apologies for the thread-jacking, all, but this does speak at least indirectly to the Thread’s Issue.
10.5 inch woofers. I just don’t have the room to space them 10 feet apart. Here’s a writeup of the speakers.
I hope this isn’t thread-jacking. We are talking about live vs reproduced music. IMHO one of the final frontiers is sound stage height. Others may feel differently. Love to hear other opinions.
Was standing a bit to right of center for this photo, but the Harby’s are now tipped back around 50% of the height of the pucks in front which are helping to isolate them from the JL f112 subs. Clearly unable to adhere to my rule in this room either ; ). Nowhere else to put the subs.
The bar chair in the foreground is about 24" seating height vs. my usual 16", and I am sitting at least two feet further back from the usual spot, just to get situated reasonably with regard to the mains.
Sheesh! Too many variables in an imperfect environment. Pretty much what the vast majority of us have to deal with ; )
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A few years ago when I bought a sax mouthpiece from a friend who’s a professional jazz musician…http://www.nicolassimion.com/homepage.php?lg=en (he played with e.g. Mal Waldron and others)…I had the chance to get a short lesson in tenor from him. At the beginning he let me play a few tones…he then asked why I play so cautious (which was how I used to play when practicing a little). He then played his horn for a few tones and this was so much more powerful and loud…I then had a guess how those pro‘s sound in a small room when used to the stage.
Another interesting short experience was, that I had problems with some high tones he asked me to play. He then said, I should imagine how those tones should sound while playing. It worked then.
The reason I have long been a two-ways + two subs person, despite it easily adding up to the cost of good Towers, is that you can (given the space) place both the speakers and the subs in acoustically optimal spots in the Room, rather than being stuck with the woofers directly under the rest of the drivers (as admittedly mine are now). Granted, you can add subs to pretty much any tower speakers, however large the towers’ woofers, but you do not have the option of changing the relationship of the woofers in a tower speaker to the rest of the drivers.
I think in most audiophiles’ rooms in the world (outside the 1% - though it could be a much higher percentage - who typically are not audiophiles) the woofers and/or subs load the room in such a way as to make true high-end sound all but impossible. No manufacturer or dealer is going to mention this, even if they know it. Were I one, I sure as hell wouldn’t. Put as many oversized speakers in whatever rooms you can get 'em in, says I ; )
Props to Hansen for time-aligning the drivers on the Princes, which many makers don’t bother with. Similarly, glad that the AN3 tops are now separated from the bottoms, even if it was driven by shipping costs, as a side benefit may be that it is possible to time align them some.
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Very true. Essential. It’s all about Tone : )
Similar thing with electric instruments and amps. If you don’t drive the “system” - in this case, an electric guitar or bass, say, with a tube amp head and speaker cabinet - into its sweet spot, it ain’t happening tonally. Which is usually pretty loud. And that typically requires a large-ish studio room to handle the amp’s Happy Place : ). Hence the recent renewed popularity of small, tonally awesome but not overly loud, vintage guitar amps.
Used to be that it was pretty darn cool that you could achieve major stage volumes with a 2x12" guitar cabinet. It was about filling a large venue with or without a proper PA - but now it is about tone, lower stage volume/less gain-before-feedback/better hearing onstage. Kinda like the Opera Singer thing, except…well, they are screwed, as it is two humans standing next to one another putting out levels similar to putting your head up to a guitar amp ; )
This goes to the adage “If you cannot hear it, you cannot play it.” This applies to tone, intonation, style, articulation - everything a musician does.
It was like voodoo to me at the time…I suddenly could play tones that were unavailable before…good musicians are like magicians for me.
I was once at a wedding in a castle in Rome, where, Andrea Bocelli was performing at the Dinner . He was 10 feet from me, powerful, dynamic, and, complete control, remarkable.
I wonder how someone should doubt this…very different from recording to recording (even more strange when different on one album as you experienced). It must be depending on mic placement and direction of the singer/Instrument I guess. Or mixing?
It’s so much fun discovering an own better tone…in my case this mouthpiece brought some success…unfortunately I’m playing way too badly to speak of an „own“ tone or style…I guess I have the tone of the mouthpiece.
OK, so here’s a fun bit, analysis-wise. Moved back down to my comfy chair, but probably a foot further back, without changing anything else, and with the speakers tilted back, it is pretty fab, given that the other room responses are dialed in roughly where they had been/what I’m used to. The sound is “speaking” up into the room more.
Seems like more height and likely better driver time alignment as well.
Who knows. Maybe I’m just more comfortable. Sheesh : )
I had a REL G1 MK2 about 15 months ago. I used it with a BHK Stereo Amp and a pair of Wilson Duettes (which were very good in my crappy room). I sold the BHK after demoing a Maker Audio amp which IMO was much better. For whatever reason, the Maker didn’t play nice with the REL. The amp sounded great driving just the Wilsons but not when I had the REL hooked up. I sold the Wilsons and the REL when I got a great deal on the Hansens which IMO don’t need a sub. I am always on the lookout for a pair of the Hansen King which I’m sure are fantastic for what I want…
One of the reason the Hansen’s don’t need a sub is because that cabinet is virtually resonance free. You can see it’s not a huge speaker but the pair weighs more than 500lbs. The cabinets are unreal.
“One of the reason the Hansen’s don’t need a sub is because that cabinet is virtually resonance free. You can see it’s not a huge speaker but the pair weighs more than 500lbs.”
Get that totally. Plenty of well respected folks (certainly more respected than me) subscribe to that, and if you have the room and the amps and so on for them, good on y’all. Still, you can’t change the position of the woofers.
“The cabinets are unreal.”
Which is a good way of putting my sonic issue with a lot of tower speakers that are designed around the deadest possible cabinets, and why I have speakers that are not unlike an instrument - like a guitar or violin - in that the drivers and thin-walled cabinets are designed to produce their sound together into the room.
Different philosophy. And just my preference.
The subs, however are designed that way, as massive (100-ish lbs. each) and dead as possible, with No Ports. Which is how I think subs should be.
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I had a pair of Sonus Faber Liutos. SF also believes that the cabinet should make music like the drivers. I loved my Liutos, they sounded like music. I wanted to buy a bigger pair of SFs until I found a deal on the Hansens.
I am an agnostic when it comes to this and that camp on design features, materials, etc. The only thing I care about is what it sounds like. I love tube amps. My Maker amp is solid state and is the best amp I’ve ever had. Better than a pair of beautiful tubed Air Tight amps I had a few years back. IMO, people get caught up in this or that design choice whether it comes to speakers, amps, cables, etc. I have no idea, I’m not an electrical engineer. I have very good ears though. I know what cables sound good, what DACs produce analogue like sound. At least to my ears. I think you and I are very similar, we use our ears to tell us what sounds right. Of course, at the end of the day it’s all about synergy. You can have components, cables, etc that sound great on their own but do they play well together? I can’t tell you how much $$$ I’ve lost over the years buying something expensive that should have been better than what I bought it to replace only to find the cheaper component worked better with the rest of the system.
I definitely think subs are the way to go many times. Unfortunately my REL and my amp just wouldn’t play nice with each other. REL and BHK amps though are 
Agree totally
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Just got done listening to a really good 2004(?) recording of Jackson Browne acoustic concert in Baltimore. Having seen him live once it’s almost like he’s on-stage in my LR. Almost…
What is missing is scale, body presence. His guitar sounds life-like,as does his piano. But scaled down. Less dynamic range, less fullness. Tonality wise it’s really close to live. Just less 3D, less body.
I’m sure there are systems that get closer. I’ve got about $75-100k in mine. That last little bit is really, really expensive. For 500k you probably get a lot closer to live, assuming you assemble the system correctly. I'm not suggesting that it's an absolute that the more you spend the closer the system gets to live, but there is a strong positive correlation. There are no $5000 speakers that sound as good as the Magico Ulitmates.
I’m pretty critical of my own stuff and I think it sounds really good right now. Still I’ll never give up the quest to get closer. I have to start buying lottery tickets again. 