I agree 100%. But as with any controversial subject there needs to be views on both sides. Then the uncommitted buyer or user can decide if they want to trust the scientific community or the niche user group in this case who has direct experience using the product. At that point it’s up to them.
There is no need to takes sides with anyone. It is only controversial to people with vested interests who take issue with people with opposing views. The way you put it, “the scientific community” and “the niche user group” makes it clear where you think superiority lies. To me it implies that you do not consider the trained and experienced scientists at cable manufacturers part of the “scientific community”, they must be part of the “niche” group that includes their customers.
Dealers are good for the audio industry because they enable people to try out products without a financial commitment, so the uncommitted can remain uncommitted until they hear something the feel it worthwhile to commit to.
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But that is not an option for opinion. If these cable makers are or have scientists on their staff, those credentials must be disclosed for any credibility. In fact in some US states and Canada as well, it’s illegal to assume professional titles without the educational and practice experience to back it up. Licensing also comes into play.
You are just assuming these cable makers have skilled scientists behind them. How about you do some research on that and tell us what you find. And that means year and schools attended, peer reviewed papers, companies worked for. This is standard for any technical bio.
I’m trying to think of what in the world would make Paul want to do this.
I’m not coming up with anything.
Do you mean orchestrate a blind power cord test?
Why not?
You are making assumptions about what I am assuming.
I needed new speaker cables as mine are too short. I have some on the way. The scientist behind them got his doctorate in his native Denmark and has 4 years of post-doctoral research at Harvard. He has a long list of papers under his name on the Harvard website.
I don’t actually care about peer-reviewed Harvard papers, I care about the transparency, phase accuracy and noise rejection of these cables.
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I would guess–and this is just a guess–but I would guess that Paul is a busy boy.
Why don’t you do the test? You’re an engineer. Your findings would be appreciated by many curious folks in this group. I would be first in line to read about it.
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Ok, can we have the name and company?
I’m also curious as to how you are picking up noise on a speaker cable? At that low impedance this would be very odd. Do you live in close proximity to some high power RF system like a broadcast tower?
I don’t have a name in high end audio or the industry connections to set this up at an audio show. Paul certainly does and he advocates high end power cords so a positive outcome would be much to his benefit.
Why would this test require notoriety or an audio show?
All we need is for someone with the engineering cred to do a test. YouTube channels can spread like wildfire. Or at the very least, this community of audio friends would benefit greatly.
Are you based in the US?
The space, seating, rental of acoustical panels, etc. A company like PS Audio might be able to negotiate this for free or get donations from other cable vendors. I don’t have those connections and online research will show that I am anti high end cables. So I don’t expect any donations from cable vendors unless the outcome of the test is high on the odds that it will show repeatable differences.
And yes there is YouTube. But the credibility is low. Seamless editing, rigged test gear. I would not do that but I do accept the suspicion that would arise. No, it has to be in person and the test setup open to inspection. The test also has to be proctored by someone from both sides as well.
I admit it’s not a trivial undertaking to set up.
No, because you will only try and pick holes in the person’s credentials. Does everyone in the “scientific community” have doctorates and lists of peer reviewed papers? What are the entry requirements to this club?
Speaker cables are my primary analogue signal cable and my view is a speaker cable can only be less bad. Some do come across as more transparent than others. I don’t know why, and I don’t really care why, but they do.
My other requirements are that they are long enough and pretty much flat, to go under a rug.
Let’s just leave it that many have listened to wires and found there to be a positive improvement, and @glimmie believes these differences are impossible and therefore not real.
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But within certain areas of context.I do expect an undersized power cord on a large power amp to sound different than a cord of proper current capacity. Or a severe RFI problem and a cord that has a RFI rejecting jacket construction or filtering. Other than that I agree with your assessment.
Sorry But I don’t agree a bit.
Just do a test on your own gear with a couple cables that you can borrow from The Cable Co lending library and your favorite cable.
Invite a couple people to participate. They can be a mix of audiophiles and not.
Room treatment is not needed for a cable test. The cable should stand on it’s own.
It needs the credibility of someone like PS Audio and done at a major audiophile event or convention to have any credibility. There already plenty of small scale YouTube videos.on both sides and the debate still goes on. I think a strictly controlled shootout at a major industry event is far more credible.
Ok. thanks
But—not to be a royal PIA, which power cables have you tried that failed to improve your hifi sound over the stock issue cables? That would be helpful for those who are just dipping their toe into the “power cable upgrade” waters.
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None, but here’s what I did try and do.
I decided to study electrical engineering and the associated mathematics and physics that goes along with it. Then I entered a career in broadcast and high end mastering engineering where a lot of AV cables are used.
My training and experience, which is based on 100 years of accumulated knowledge says most of the audio cable claims are not plausible.
This “just try it” is fine for those dabbling in an unfamiliar field. Like if I were to try and be a gourmet cook. I would have to just try stuff lacking the formal training and experience. But professionals don;t need to try out already ill proven theories and practices.
I assume based on the costs, many high end power cord buyers are professionals. like a doctor or lawyer. How about I propose some off the wall medical treatment or legal theory, then when it’s shot down by a professional in the field, I say, “well did you try it”?
Let’s get real. Audio shows are about meeting distributors, dealers, getting press coverage for product launches, catching up with magazine editors and meeting a few customers. Doing a bit of quasi-science? I don’t think so.
Attending shows costs a lot of time and money and should be mostly about doing business, not pandering to their detractors.