'I Like the Music, But Not the Musician'

On topic, grounded in facts, respectfully expressed.

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Of course.

There’s one in every crowd.

@danschwartz: Are you referring to Brian Eno, Nick Cave, or me?

  • If Brian Eno: Yes, I agree, he should be called out for his BDS activities.

  • If Nick Cave: Why? He is speaking bravely for musicians and artists who are afraid of the BDS hit squad.

  • If me: If you have an issue with me or my posts, please feel free to put me on IGNORE and/or message me privately. Personal attacks against Forum members are not appropriate (see @Elk’s post #122, above). Thanks.

Dan the Bass Player goes on the List! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

What “list”?

Umm, the “I Like the Music, But Not the Musician” list?

I do not know @danschwartz’s music and I have no issue with him. My expressed concern regarding Brian Eno is what prompted this latest series of posts. If you want to defend Eno and/or his BDS activities, please do so.

You seem awfully touchy on the subject of this thread, Boot. I agree completely with the moral high ground you have staked out here - sincerely. I am not in any way arguing in favor of the bad behavior or politics of anyone, regardless of their day job.

What I’ve been trying to do is to get my head around what bugs me about it as a Topic. Something seems odd about it that I can’t put my finger on - I’ll admit. It is not the seeming moral quandary it poses. Perhaps it is that you react in such a way that the unspoken inference is, “How can you in good conscience disagree?” I don’t. It seems self-evident.

I don’t quite understand why one would give a musician’s opinion any more or less valence than any other public figure with a different job with the same reach. As their ability to reach more people than the average Joe is part of it. But - because they’re artists? Artists being widely known for their exemplary thinking skills and moral uprightness? Because contrary to your average politician, they do something else in their lives with redeeming qualities?

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P.S. - You know Dan’s work, and may even own and like some of it.

Which in the context of this discussion I suppose begs the question - would that alter your reaction to his posts in any way?

@badbeef: This thread is a safe harbor for Forum members to communicate about musicians whose work they admire but whose politics, morals, ethics, etc. … not so much.

You have staked out a position that is, as I understand it, along the lines of the following: I just want to enjoy the music without having to think about that other stuff.

I respect your position and I am not trying to nitpick it.

By contrast, I have come to the reluctant conclusion that you are ‘sea-lioning’ my posts. Therefore, I am going to resist the temptation to respond further. As Tom Petty might say, “you believe what you want to believe.”

I look forward to discussing music with you in other Forum threads.

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The moral quandary I find appropriate to discuss is whether one should listen to/support an artist who separately engages in abhorrent behavior.

I am not so keen on arguing whether a given artist’s political or other beliefs are “correct” or “wrong.” At that point we are discussing politics rather than art.

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Exactly … thanks for the timely and important clarification, @Elk. For me, a classic example of the ‘moral quandary’ is Ginger Baker. By many accounts, Ginger was a phenomenal drummer and a complete SOB with occasionally violent tendencies. I dislike what I know of Ginger the person, but he is one of my favorite drummers.

OK - shoulda left well enough alone. I’m clearly not getting across. Apologies for making waves.

No apology necessary AFAIAC, but graciously accepted nonetheless, thanks.

So - is that some sort of aquatic acceptance with which I wasn’t familiar until now? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

You have nothing to apologize for that I can discern.

And your question as to what degree one should care what an artist thinks is both relevant and significant.

To answer, I weight their views as I would anyone else - are they intelligent, well-informed, thoughtful? If so, I am interested in what they have to say. If they are self-obsessed dullards their pronouncements are of no value.

Then there is the separate question as to whether one should support an artist who holds what you feel to be offensive views or acts abhorrently. I find the question intriguing as it pits my enjoyment against my values - it is pretty easy to start rationalizing to allow the enjoyment side win. :slight_smile:

The question gets harder when the artist is dead and his actions are long ago relegated to history.

(I had not herd of Sealioning as a term. Fun.)

Thought of you guys when I got this just now…

Uh oh . . .

While I enjoy their earliest albums, for Eric up through Derek and the Dominos, and Van through Veedon Fleece. Their subsequent releases never did much for me. Eric having sold out and Van, well… Not much use for either in the 2020’s. Just my opinion. I do feel for the struggling musicians and venues, but there’s a limit.