plus one for Raspberry pi streamers (if you don’t mind furtling a bit to get them set up). capable of most excellent performance, whether via USB or one of a selection of add on HATs.
Personally i think Logitech Media Server (Slimserver as was) as the back end server is hard to beat (and free 
) and can also run on a Pi elsewhere on the LAN.
Tak, you seem to be missing an important point with these units (USB to over Cat5 or Cat6. That is if you look into the detail, you cannot use them on a Cat5 or Cat6 cable that has a switch or router in the path. Here is a quote from the StarTech device"
" Installation
- Place the Local and Remote units at the desired locations and
connect together using RJ45 terminated Cat5 or Cat6 cabling.
a) If you are using surface cabling, ensure you have enough Cat5e
cabling to connect the Local Unit to the Remote Unit’s location,
and that each end is terminated with a RJ45 connector. The cabling
cannot go through any networking equipment (i.e. router, switch).
OR
b) If you are using premise cabling, ensure that the Cat5e
cabling between the Local Unit to the Remote Unit has been
properly terminated in a wall outlet in each location and there is
a patch cable long enough to connect the Remote Unit to their
respective outlets. The cabling cannot go through any networking
equipment (i.e. router, switch)."
You need to have a dedicated, point to point, Cat5 or Cat6 cable. So these devices with not work in my network.
Tom. I guess I just don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish. The devices I mention does NOT go through a switch. The USB over Ethernet was recommended as you were willing to run 30 ft of cabling (in your case, an optical/USB device that would not work in 2.0), The devices I pointed would work at that length - just using Cat cable BETWEEN the baluns. Good luck with whatever you are trying to accomplish.
I am in the same boat, which is why I stopped making any further suggestions.
There is a disconnect (no pun intended) somewhere - a material misunderstanding.
Perhaps a lack of understanding about how music streaming works vs. computer networking…?
I hope Tom gets it sorted somehow.
I was trying to utilize my existing Network (Ethernet) cable that runs from where I wanted to put the server to my audio rack. It would have been nice if I could, but it seems that I cannot for the reasons that I’ve stated, a network switch.
So, at this point I think I have two choices that would work in my situation.
- Run another, dedicated, Cat5 or Cat6 cable, with no network on it. Just the audio signals and no switch.
- Build up a small computer (most likely a 1U rack mount) that would sit right on my audio rack. In this case it would be a very short USB cable between the two. I’m leaning toward this solution.
Hopefully, that explains where I am and what I’m doing…
“Hopefully, that explains where I am and what I’m doing…”
Not really…
And I am a little frustrated that I cannot be of any assistance (apparently).
I am no IS guru, but I can tell you that I use a system that includes the capability of long runs of optical cable (for purposes of galvanic isolaton) and I ALSO incorporate a passive ethernet switch in my signal chain.
My optical run is very short because all of my kit (except for my computer) are pretty close to each other. The start, segments and stop of my network (focusing on the signal to the DAC) are, roughly, as follows (from computer to DAC):
iMac (Wi-Fi connection to modem/router/the iMac and the modem/router are in separate rooms on separate floors of my home) >
Modem/Router >
Ethernet cable (RJ45-type throughout, but for optical cable as noted) >
Eero “base station” for my Wi-Fi mesh >
Ethernet cable >
Passive Ethernet Switch >
Ethernet cable >
TP Link media converter >
Optical cable (short run) >
TP Link media converter >
Ethernet cable >
Pink Faun LAN Isolator >
PSA Bridge II Ethernet card >
PSA DirectStream DAC
Sorry for all of the specifics about MY system. The point I would like to emphasize is that you could convert the signal to optical or Ethernet via a media converter in close proximity to your computer and then fashion a long run to where your Hi-Fi kit is; and then convert the signal back into any form you need. If it is ethernet you need, you can certainly have an Ethernet switch before and/or after the media conversation point if need be. Alternatively, you can forego a switch and run the signal directly from your media converter of choice into you DAC input of choice.
Once again, I hope this helps some and good luck.
Apologies if I just don’t “get it”.
Regards.
This is not related to OP questions but for my own information. Do you run an Ethernet cable between the modern and wi-fi mesh, or was it wireless? I assume the TP Link media converter is to convert ethernet to USB, then it goes into another TP Link media? What is the benefit of that?
I did not read the entire posts, but I am interested to know if I can improve mine more. Currently I have a mesh connecting to a SoTM iso-Cat7 filter then goes into Bridge II.
-
Yes. The “main” modem/router is connected to the Eero mesh base station (Wii-Fi router) via an Ethernet cable. (The iMac downstairs, which serves as my music repository and home for the rendering software I use, hops on to the Wi-Fi network via an Eero “repeater” located closer to my iMac on the main floor.)
-
The TP Link media converter is in the signal path “simply” to create a break in the Ethernet chain for purposes of dropping any noise the upstream Ethernet equipment (switches, modem, cables, power supplies, etc.) might have added to the signal line. I don’t have any USB cables in my network and have defaulted, thus far, to feeding my DS DAC via the Ethernet Bridge II card. The TP Link MCs are inserted to provide what many refer to as “galvanic isolation” in this context.
-
As noted above, the reported/touted benefit of converting Ethernet to optical to Ethernet before sending the 1s and 0s on down the line to the Bridge/DAC is to try and reduce noise along for the ride. I believe such noise can accumulate along the signal path and even though I still have a power supply and ethernet cable (as well as the second TP Link MC) in the chain just before the DS DAC, there is less opportunity, practically speaking, for noise (at least theoretically).
Think of the the deployment of the two TP Link MCs as being analogous to the “new” PS Audio “air gap” technology they are implementing. It is all about removing or preventing noise from traveling along the signal path and impacting the resolution of the ultimate music signal.
Confession time. Since since I am as much of an irrational, neurotic audiophile as the next guy/gal, I have added an iFi low noise “wall wart” power supply to power the second, down-stream media converter, a higher quality Ethernet cable after the second media converter and inserted a Pink Faun LAN Isolator* between the final Ethernet cable run and the Bridge II card. The LAN Isolator plugs directly into the Bridge II.
I hope this helps some.
Regards.
*
This is great information and helps a lot! When I upgrade to the AirLens, I may dive deep into the network audio more. Thanks!
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It might be clearer to ask (or search for) USB over IP (at least it would cut out all the “USB over ethernet” that are actually USB over CAT5/6).
Most USB over IP solutions I’ve seen expect a windows PC at one end, which may suit you, or they may be a solution with a hardware hub at each end.
Just trying to cut through the confusion (mostly caused by poorly described and named solutions online).
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Actually Joma, you are correct. The term “USB over Ethernet” is not correct and technically will not work by the nature of the beast. If you actually look at definition of the word Ethernet (see Ethernet - Wikipedia) you’ll see that it is inclusive of all computer networking technologies. This would include cables, routers, switches, etc. And from what I have found USB, can not be transmitted over this technology. Hence why it won’t work in my network.
On the other hand, your use of the term “USB over Cat5/6,” is absolutely correct. This will work, because it is only using the Cat5/6 cable as a carrier for a signal. In this case being USB.
Thank you for pointing this out and I will cease using the word Ethernet. In my defense I “thought” it would be less confusing, but it seems that it has caused more confusion. I apologize.
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OK, now that, hopefully, I’ve explained the situation I do have two questions for you.
Let’s assume that I run a dedicated Cat5/6 cable from the remote server to my audio rack. One the server end I put a USB to Cat5/6 adapter. On the other end, I put a Cat5/6 to USB adapter on it and connect to my PSA DAC.
- If I leave my server at the remote location, will there be any loss in the audio quality with the signal going through these adapters? Or would it be best to move the server close to the DAC?
- If, on my server, there is a USB DAC-UP port will this help or hinder the quality of the audio? Again, assuming that I have a dedicated Cat5/6 cable with the above mentioned adapters on it.
I think we’re actually getting closer on this. Thanks for hanging in there with me as I go through this learning process.
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Unless someone says otherwise, you can’t directly connect a tcpip cable directly between your server and dac, you have to have a dhcp server in there somewhere, usually via your internet router. i.e. it has to be a network
Agreed and for USB over IP solutions that would be needed (although static IP addressing would mean no DHCP server is needed, just manual admin overhead when setting up).
For USB over CAT 5/6 though there is no IP, no Ethernet, just USB signalling going over twisted pair cables.
In the method I described, there is NO DHCP or IP involved. You are just using the Cat5/6 cable as a wire to connect one point to the other.
Last post on this topic.
USB over IP is that - sending a signal utilizing internet protocol to devices over a network. That requires network functions such as DHCP, routing, etc.
USB over Ethernet (also called “USB extender,” or "USB over Cat5 (or Cat6)), is a method that does NOT use IP. It uses two baluns. The baluns convert the USB signal to and from an Ethernet signal as a means to transmit the USB information between the baluns. Shielded or unshielded twisted pair cable (Cat) is used as a DIRECT CONNECTION between the baluns so USB data/information can be transmitted much further than “plain” USB. USB has a limitation of roughly 9ft, after which it starts to become unreliable/unstable. By converting the signal and using Cat cable IN REPLACEMENT of the USB cable, the transmission can go further more reliably.
The USB over Ethernet (USB extender) was suggested instead of the Sewell Direct USB over Fiber device tom linked in his earlier post, as that particular product will not properly enumerate USB 2.0 at full speed (480mbps) and even high speed is questionable since it uses fiber for the D lines, but solid wire for the 5v lines. USB 2.0 requires a pull up resistor between the +5v and either the D+ or D- lines to signal that the attached device is full speed (12mbps) or high speed (480mbps) capable. If there is no resistor, USB 1.0/1.1 is default. THEN, even if there is the proper signal present, there is a “chrip” that occurs between the devices that signals the attached device is high speed capable (otherwise full speed is default), but that chirp doesn’t even happen if the voltage isn’t seen on the proper line. There are devices that have the additional circuitry to do such enumeration, but that is not one of them.
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Thanks for trying.
SEE
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I’m glad you all are working this out. That way when it’s time for my system to evolve, I’ll know where to come for reference.
This place is certainly a wealth of information freely shared. That’s one of the reasons I am still here after 3 years or so.
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At that same time had I not been here, I’d have a few more dollars in the pockets.
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