That’s true of course. Especially here in Sweden with a high VAT tax at 25% which combined with a very weak currency towards the USD since a while back do bring up the prices. This goes for all US imported brands though where PS Audio is no different.
Marcus, www.perfect.sense.se
Like I have said previously, this move is effectively a massive price increase to anyone that knew enough to buy from dealers that offered discounts. I don’t care how Paul or the PSA apologists here spin it.
I hope nobody wonders why most manufacturers don’t have an open internet forum on their website. My wife would ask if I wanted a little cheese to go with that whine.
xThe discussion, including mine, has been primatily about pricing, but the other side of this is that PS Audio wants the entire margin. The question is why. Paul’s explanation notwithstanding, it typically boils down to a privately-held company being in trouble or projecting that possibility, or alternatively needing additional capital to fund what new they want to do, and not wanting to go to or substantially depend on outside sources to accomplish it.
I’m guessing the latter, given that the company has been developing not only a line of speakers, but also substantially higher end versions of some their gear, starting with the dac. All of that is going to take a substantial capital outlay — and risk. So from that standpoint there’s a meaningful logic to it. Much of the discussion here has been about one element of the risk — access to the company’s products and how much the company has gained from it. From my vantage point, it’s not a small one. Without access to internal discussions, we can only wonder if it’s sufficiently appreciated.
I bought my PSA units in the UK at full retail price. That is normal for virtually all HiFi. I have got a dealer discount on other occasions, but am sworn to secrecy. If you want money off you look for ex-demo or second hand.
It is very depressing to read that USA customers get deep discounts for new items retail.
When I saw recently that current models were being discounted online by a well known dealer I assumed he was stopping with PSA and clearing stock. Then I saw other PSA dealers discounting. This is very unusual behaviour and I have no idea what is going on.
The DSD DAC was £6000, then £5,000, then £4583, now £4025. This includes 20% sales tax in the UK. It would have cost me £6000 to upgrade from a PWD three years ago and in retrospect it would have been a poor investment.
Yup, profit per unit will go up, sale will go down. I know for certain that I won’t spend $6k on a DAC, $2k is comfortable for me, and I can stretch to $4k, which is where the DirectStream is basically now with dealer discount.
One thing to remember though, having a smaller customer base means reduce word of mouth and less hype too, so it’s may not be in PSA best interest to loose their customers, even if per unit profit goes up.
Well Underwood is still selling at great prices, and you can get 6 months same as cash.
Wrong! I have bought several items from Walter, all drop shipped from PSA!
That is not true. I have bought Mcintosh gear from two different dealers in California, both gave me a significant discount!
Same as it’s always been.
I have gotten isoacoustic Gaia 3 from Underwood and he is nice.
As @Todesengel says the timing of all this is killing me.
Oh, Baldy…
Who’s whining? I am just pointing out the simple facts of the matter. PSA and the apologists are playing this down like it is no big deal. It is a big deal…
As life altering events go its not a big deal. Its just stereo stuff and disposable income. Nothing traumatic.
Were aren’t talking about anything but “stereo stuff” here. My comments are in the context of the thread’s subject.
I started out my sales career selling Kirby vacuums door to door, its a business model that still works for Kirby to this day. Every morning there was a meeting and if you sold a vacuum the day before you rang a bell and told the story. Any sales was a good sell, everyone shared in your success, even if you sold it for cost Kirby’s business model provided a small profit for all concerned.
PS Audio owes its current success to a similar business model, except it was the successful independent online retailer who drove the bell to ring every morning at PS Audio. Make no mistake PS Audio direct sales are just residuals from the actions of these aggressive salesmen. They secretly fueled the excitement which powered the engines that made PS Audio hum. Without them I have no idea how PS Audio plans to drive customers to their doors. Hire their own salesmen, train them, send them out door to door. Please!
I am actually very worried for them, top quality salesmen will never work directly for PS Audio, they just move on to a different widget. PS Audio will be forced to hire junior sales staff off the street to man the phones that will slowly stop ringing. Pretty soon these boys will take in a used Kirby vacuum just to make a sale. There are only a few successful direct sales business models that work, this is not one of them.
PS Audio already stumbled upon the business model that works in the USA and and at the same times offers an old school business model to the rest of the world. I thought it was genius, the only thing Paul needed to do was raise the retail price’s to cover the new factory overhead …their still time to change the road your on.
At the end of the day, buyers will ultimately determine if the new model works or not (or at least at the prices they will offer). So many high quality options at all price points (including PSA). Myself, I’m debating to get a discounted BHK 250 unit before the “deadline” or just wait. Business wise, Im going into my slower season and I don’t think I want to add any major purchases to due upcoming travel and holiday obligations. If I wait, I doubt PSA will offer me what dealers are offering now (no, I’m not interested in trading in any gear) so chances are I will seek other options for amplification to go with my BHK preamp in the near future. The great thing about audio is there are more quality options now than ever (at least in my 51 years of living).
I’m actually looking forward to PSA’s new sales model and upcoming products (dacs, speakers, etc).
Mr @amsco15 doesn’t say much but he makes sense when he does. How refreshing, Dale.
The doom and gloom interpreters may be entirely correct. This may be the end of all steep, 40% - 50% off discounts on PSA gear. However, as multiple people have alluded to, PSA themselves have been willing to make deals beyond the scope of their trade in program, even while a dealer network existed. Did they make those discounts to compete with their own dealers, and now by eliminating dealers, they are eliminating their competition? Or is the overall PSA pricing model built upon inflated prices with discounts the lure?
I think we’ll have to see how this plays out over time. Time will reveal the effects of this direct sales move. While its entertaining to speculate, at this point, we have no genuine data to prove things one way or the other.
One interesting angle that has yet to be discussed is “which manufacturers represent PSA’s most direct competition? And are steep discounts readily available for those companies from internet dealers?”
I think we’ve analyzed PS Audio’s side of the equation to the point of exhaustion. What about their direct competitors, Mytek, etc? I’’m not well enough informed to name them all, nor how those companies trade in the market. But this seems to be an important angle to explore in order to better access what PSA is up to and how the future might play out…
Thanks for your concern, Bill, it’s much appreciated. I think just about everyone on these forums has our best interests at heart and I am thankful for that.
However, let’s be clear and frank about this. Years ago dealers were the go between with customers and manufacturers. Many manufacturers had no relationship with their end users (and many still don’t). PS Audio has always been different in that respect. From day one we have been a factory direct company in the US. That started 45 years ago and except for the period between 1990 and 1997 when I took a break to build speakers and Randy and Steve owned the company, we have been unwavering in our direct support, and sales to end users.
As time has gone by and especially into the 2015s and later, bricks and mortar dealers have been going away on a slow and steady march. Even those who stay are less and less able to fulfill their original roles of marketers, helpers, installers, and retail showrooms. Today, only a rare handful handle all these functions. Increasingly, it is left to the manufacturers to provide the marketing, customer support, outreach to the public, something we have been doing since day one.
Our retail business has only grown over the years and through no external efforts of our own. We just took our first paid advertisement in a magazine out in the latest Stereophile for the first time in an easy decade.
Your comment that dealers were the ones secretly fueling our success and we’re living off the residuals of their efforts is perhaps more of an educated guess than what’s really happening. Certainly, dealers have offered their advice and recommendations to customers and those have certainly fueled sales, but it’s worth noting that the majority of our domestic sales have been direct for well over two years. Our staff of HiFi Specialists are the ones folks call for advice before making a purchase. I like to think they’re quite experienced.
So, while your experience with direct sales models hasn’t been great, please don’t worry about us. We’re doing great and I see no reason that should change.
Are you going to be offering regular discounts off of MSRP to people that ask for a discount? Or are you going to stick to MSRP and only discount through the trade in program?
Are you you keeping the MSRP prices the same as they are now?