To get from a Red to a Blue is just a stylus change as the cartridge bodies are the same. Same thing with the Bronze and Black. Don’t let your choice of a TT be guided by what “free cartridge” they include as with the basic Rega, Project and other brands the “free cartridge” is a cheap commodity they buy in bulk to get you started. The Direct Drive Technics is a long term solid investment that will last for years while the P3 is meant to be a stepping stone with hundreds of available upgrade paths that can become a bottomless pit. Owned one and sold it for a big loss just to get rid of it.
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Great points. Thank you. Andrew Robinson agrees with you. He says that you’d have to spend in the $3K - $5K range to beat the Technics SL-1500C.
Hi, Actually Rega sounded very alive and vivid, pending on other factors too (cart, phono); My brother carefully compared pro-jet and rega (he watched their factory videos as well). He already own and really likes UK made audiophile systems and the sound that came with it, thus tentatively leaning toward rega. It is matter of personal choice I guess. It was my bad and called him you need to also audition rega phono and MC cart while at dealer. Turned out that the phono and MC cart made significant difference at dealer’s audition room. My brother streams music mainly and values convenience and vast choices, but rega system is so appealing and he has to admit though he hates the work associated with vinyl every time he plays a record, he definitely got rewarded by the music coming out of it. there is legacy behind rega’s a bit unique take on vinyl replay.
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A solid choice, and worth saving up for IME. The VPI Traveler Ver. 2 was also a worthy player, unfortunately discontinued. I had one with an Ortofon Black MM that was very good. Got an incredible deal on a NIB Rega P8 with Apheta 3, thus the Traveller moved on to yet another happy LP spinner. If one has a serious commitment to vinyl and fair sized LP collection moving up the line and spending north of $1,000 for a rig is worthwhile.
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One thing that’s appealing about the Technics is the ease of use. It’s why Darko uses Technics instead of his very fancy Rega rig. I’m hesitant about the SL-1500C’s made in Malaysia pedigree. Darko comments that the 1500 build quality is lower than the famous similarly priced 1200 DJ table. There are various YouTube videos showing the effects of poor construction quality on the 1500.
I have great respect for all things Japanese. Their pride or craftsmanship and attention to detail is admirable. I have a collection of artisan made high end Japanese chef knives that I adore.
I wonder if the Technics SL-1210GR is worth the extra $500? It’s made in Japan. I’m either going to go cheap with the Fluance, or get something that’s genuinely built to last. My Grandfather’s record collection from the 50’s and 60’s is on it’s way, and one day I will inherit my father’s large collection from the 60’s and 70’s.
What are other good $1500 - $1700, built to last decades decks are there? VPI and Clear Audio?
20 years ago or so I sold my old Denon direct drive 'table and Infinity Black Widow arm, that I’d had since 1978, and got a VPI Aries Scout. It was their entry level model at the time, and the one that Art Dudley famously went nuts over in a Stereophile review. I got it as a demo unit for about $1200 as I recall. I’ve been a big VPI fan ever since.
That model’s been replaced by the Prime Scout, which is now $2500, so it’s more than your budget range, but they also have a line of what they consider “entry level” 'tables that are less - the Cliffwood (~$1k) and the Player (~$1.5k with a built-in phono stage). I think either an AT or Ortofon are included in those prices, too.
They make great turntables, and they’re a fabulous, family-owned company with tremendous service. One example - I was having some difficulty with their basic anti-skate adjustment, which you do by taking the wire leads from where they exit the tonearm twisting it clockwise or counterclockwise before your plug its Lemo connector into the junction box at the back (the box where you then plug in your phono cables). Seems simple, but I as I said, I was having some trouble with it. I emailed Mat Weisfeld, son of founder Harry, just asking for advice, and he sent me a new mechanical anti-skate device they’d just developed, using a pivoted weight and a thin monofilament line. It’s an optional device they charge something like $250 for, and he just sent it to me free, without my even asking. Not that they give all kinds of things away, but all it takes is a few weeks of watching the posts on the “I Love My VPI Turntable” Facebook group, where Mat is a regular presence, to see stories of exceptional service.
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And, we have a winner. Having read and watched far more than is healthy, I’ve come to a decision - more so a direction. It’s going to be the Technics SL-1210GR, made in Japan. Costs $1699, and still needs a cartridge. Based on lots of help here on the forums as well, I feel this will be a turntable to last many years and perform well above it’s price point. I read one user review where a guy replaced his $10K Linn with this Technics.
Will need to save up a while to get there, but that’s ok. The LRS purchase showed me good things come to those who wait.
Simply not satisfied with the SL-1500C’s build quality. To my best discernment, the SL-1500C is likely the best sub $1200 package on the market. That wiped out Fluance, Pro-Ject and Rega. Saw a YouTube video from Japan where a guy went into enormous detail showing how the Technics devastates the Rega P3 in nearly every regard.
The Cambridge Audio Alva snuck in towards the end, but forces one to use it’s internal phono preamp, which felt limiting long term.
The SL-1210GR seems to be the more perfected version of the SL-1500C, while also being the poor man’s version of the $4000 Technics 1210GAE. I think this will be a good match for the newly acquired, made in Japan, Marantz Model 30. At least they speak the same language.
So be it, the waiting and saving begins… and yes, I love the disco lights 
https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1210gr.html
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Excellent choice. Beautiful looking turntable. Now you can concentrate on an even more important part, the cartridge. The turntable can keep resonance feedback at a minimum, but the cartridge converts mechanical energy to electrical ones which like speakers that do the opposite, can vary considerably in how it can sound. It’s been awhile, but I remember before I got a good turntable setup, I listened to my friend’s setup. He use the Grado Reference (about $800 I believe) with a Well Tempered turntable and I could swear the band is in the room!! I was hooked. But do your homework and carefully choose your cartridge. It can make a huge difference in sound.
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The Cambridge Audio Alva has an internal phono and Bluetooth so that it can be used with one of their most popular products, the CXA81 DAC/amplifier, which has APTX HD bluetooth but no phono amp. You can also connect it with a line level input, but the bluetooth gives you a wireless turntable.
The heat in this unit is because it has a toroidal transformer to power the pre-amp section. The nCore500 amplifiers and the nCore power supplies are probably running very cool. The linear power supply for the pre-amp actually takes up more space than the entire nCore power supply and amplifier section.
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Congrats on making the decision. Probably a good thing I forgot to mention Schiit also has a reasonably priced new turntable that is getting good reviews, though there seems to be some consensus that it’s fussy in its setup. 
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Did you see the John Darko rendition of the Technics?
@waymanchen11 Yes, the Darko videos on the GR vs Rega, as well as his other video that approves of, but looks down his nose at the SL-1500C build quality, were very influential. It led me to investigate the build quality of the 1500 and found a number of potential issues.
My goal would be something like the Ortofon Black which seems what Technics recommends. Though might have to begin with the Blue or a comparable Nagaoka.
I really love the look of Thorens as the DJ vibe is not my favorite. But several reviews on Analog Planet (Michael is refreshingly honest) revealed that the lower end Taiwanese manufactured Thorens are not good, poor manufacturing. And Fluance is made at the same Taiwan factory which caused me to lose confidence in the RT85’s long term durability. Worth noting that Michael gives the RT85 his stamp of approval. I’m guessing the German made Thorens remain excellent, but pricey.
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Thank you, mystery solved. We were comparing apples to oranges. The power amp only M700 vs the integrated Model 30. So it’s the Model 30 preamp power supply that makes all the heat. Interesting, and obvious now that your acumen has provided the answer.
The Alva is attractive on many levels. Looks fantastic. Has a moving coil cartridge, which is rare at this price point, and a Rega tone arm. Down the road I wanted the option to explore better external phono preamps, like the Stellar (et al), and the Alva seems to box one in. I think they made a mistake providing no means to bypass their internal phone preamp and possibly why the Alva’s price has been reduced by $500. Also have no plans for the Cambridge Audio amp that meshes well with the Alva’s Bluetooth, thus not sure how I’d integrate, or even it’s wise to try, the Alva’s BT connectivity to my system.
Yes, the Sol! Which seems to translate into SOL when trying to set it up 
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It’ not my acumen, it says so on page 1 in the manual. (A quick look at images online helps.)
I think the Alva TT is designed specifically for the Cambridge Audio C and Edge ranges. It is priced between the two. Neither have internal phono stages. Both have AptX HD Bluetooth. Those ranges have been so successful, I don’t think they are looking at customers to buy the Alva for other non-CA hardware.
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Well then, I appreciate your mixture of literacy and blind luck
There’s a long “vinyl superiority” thread that’s been going on for some time on the Audio Circle board. I just posted there about a thought that popped into my head recently:
What really interests me about vinyl is the number of user-affected variables involved in the playback chain. Playback of digital media will of course be affected by choice of transport and DAC, but with analog, the selection of equipment is just the beginning of the chain of variables that can drastically affect sound. Besides selection of the 'table, arm, cartridge and phono section, there’s setup geometry, including fine tuning things like VTA, azimuth, tracking force. If one’s goal is sound with the highest fidelity to the original signal, the number of active choices required by the operator of the playback chain virtually eliminates the possibility of precisely getting there. And that’s fine - many people view that ritual as part of the charm of vinyl, part of the immersive nature of the medium. Chasing your own tail can have a Zen quality, after all. I just find it a little odd that it’s not decried more in a hobby where many think of the ultimate goal as accurate reproduction.
That thought would have never occurred to me back in the pre-digital era, since those analog systems were all we knew, but with the advent of digital, the act of data extraction from the source disc/file has become pretty much hands-off. It’s become plug-and-play in a way vinyl never was. In short, we don’t have nearly as many ways to alter the sound (or mess it up, if you prefer) as we used to. It’s become a much more “sterile” process, to the point that the “messiness” of vinyl now stands out in stark relief.
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Interesting observations! Thank you. The other endless bottomless pit variable are the ears doing the listening. Study those genetic depths and you have variable combinations exceeding the component setup, on order of magnitude.
The notion of “accurate reproduction” is entirely a fiction created by an industry that seeks to profit off our supremacist tendencies. What truly matters is not accuracy, but rather what is meaningful to a given listener, what connects them to the enjoyment and medicinal qualities of music. And if that’s a Bose system playing MP3’s, so be it. If it’s a $120K audiophile system, so be it.
The only thing that qualifies as inherently superior is the thing that the listener likes. That’s it. The rest is simply noise.
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