8Keuro is serious change - certainly not affordable to most.
But a DS + Bridge in Europe was 9k and you still need a phono stage for the 8k turntable, right?
I realize this is all subjective. It’s difficult to quantify enjoyment as a commodity. Your sentiments were part of the reason for my initial inquiry. My digital side is about $3000. When I owned the DSJ, it was more like $5000. But I sold the DSJ out of dissatisfaction. If it took $6000 to $9000 to have comparable sound as my digital rig, then I’d pass on exploring entry level turntables entirely. And in fact, write vinyl off as basically absurd.
That said, in the end, the only way to know if an entry level table will be compelling, is for me to try one. Crutchfield, ListenUp and Amazon all ship to Hawaii for free, with free return shipping for the first two.
My sense on the overall feedback here is that while there’s certainly a high mountain to climb, but that an entry level table like the Rega P2 has every potential for being an enjoyable experience. Even if it costs 1/3 my digital end once phono preamp is added in. And if I find it’s too paltry and not worth keeping, back it goes. I’m only out whatever test records I bought. And it seems to be a worthy adventure.
And with a leery eye, and a smile, I do wonder if dealers insisting that a comparable vinyl rig costs 2 - 3 times more does not contain some, err, dealer convenience quality to it. To genuinely conclude that such a statement is fact, and it may be, would take far more evidence than how much a dealer was able to draw out of their big spending clients 
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Yes You are right, but I wanted to set it into relation to the PS gear.
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Yes it still is + DMP 7000€.
Phonostage: Many had one, but yes - add another 1500€ - 2000€ for satisfied “beginners”.
Both Pro-ject X1 and X2 are beyond his budget, which seems to be pretty firm. I’d agree stepping up to the $1500 range for a TT improves thing significantly. To keep it below $1,000 all in the TT needs to be $650 or less. 
Ok, so maybe I missed the point. How much is the X1 in the States? Here in Austria wit an entry level cartridge (Ortofon sourced) it is 799€. Hoped, that would “pass” 
Is there any TT available in that class, which has a separate standing motor (not connected to the chassis), not just string suspended or similar? Schiit maybe?
Ah DMP, sure. I assume that’s not the best money spent soundwise if one doesn’t need a transport. That really immensely rises the digital rig”s price.
With the Sumiko amethyst, the X1 is $999. In the similar range of the Rega P3. Its not that I can’t afford those, it’s more that I’m not sure if I’m going to like the process of listening to vinyl vs the ease of digital operation. In that light, as vinyl curious vs vinyl converted, I’m thinking of only a toe in the water, which can become a full dive down the road.
I am not going to try to up sell the OP, but if I were shopping at the $1K level in the US, I would be seriously looking at the discontinued Travelled V2 with cart on a 10 inch arm for $1K direct from VPI. Seems like a total bargain.
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If I were stateside, I would also look at VPI, unfortunately the increased cost of Rega in the states (due to import) makes them less attractive.
The P3 in the UK is £579 which translates to $785 with cartridge, so you guys are paying a premium on the import cost.
For equavalent performance, the VPI’s are excellent.
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The one to look for IMHO is the Schiit Sol at around $799
https://www.schiit.com/products/sol
BUT, you have to know that it’s not a pay and play deck, it takes fiddling to get it sounding the best it can, although I’m sure a dealer would be able to help with setting it up. For the money though, there’s nothing that compares to the features they’ve packed in, it’s an incredible piece of kit!
The Michell Technodec is an incredible entry level option with a separate motor assembly, BUT again, this is imported from UK, so you’d likely have to look at second hand market unless you can find a stateside distributor. Absolutely phenominal deck though.
https://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/michell-technodec-turntable
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Interesting…that’s the way to go imo. The more important things addressed there (especially by the Mitchell with its platter material, sorbothane feet and separate motor) should make it way ahead of e.g. a small Rega or anything else in this class with glass platters, integrated motor or inferior isolation from the base. If you’d then add an adjustable arm to the Mitchell instead of a Rega, you’re quite far…BUT as you say, you have to fiddle with adjustment of an adjustable arm and a bit more at the Schiit (which is only possible with a dealer in case of beginner). A plug and play turntable just gets to a certain level.
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My customers (and myself) have large CD collections and still like “physical” media. Streaming from a harddrive is not that popular here… I often heard, that there is a difference in acceptance between US and European audiophiles. So a transport made sense for them. “The last CD transport, You will ever need” - until the VERY last 
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An interesting observation. I expected U.S. and European audiophiles to be quite similar in this regard.
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Me too.
I think it’s important to clarify the background of the question, which price level must a vinyl rig have to equal or better a good DAC and why there are so different opinions.
I am speaking for a rough factor of 3 or more higher (which certainly makes me very predisposed for snobbery criticism), but I want to explain under which preconditions I think so and under which I see it differently.
Not to explain myself, but to provide background for those who can’t guess why there are so different opinions.
I begin with a few facts (valid for me at least):
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Very good and specifically very revealing components can have unpleasant effects in setups with certain weaknesses, non addressed measures at other points, or where the rest of the setup is not on a level to have them embedded with proper tonality and natural sound.
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Due to the fact that it’s pure luck to get a completely non-tonality-adjustable setup playing to the point (tonality-wise), especially while switching components from time to time, most audio customers mainly select their gear by matching tonality as the major criteria (even if they are not fully aware they do so). Most (especially but not only smaller) setups in case of doubt tend to sound rather slightly too bright or not sweet enough in mids in the perception of listeners to go further down the road of maximum revealing performance.
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In a setup with smaller speakers or slightly too lean sound, a better defined, deeper reaching bass might be counterproductive compared to a worse, thicker, less defined bass.
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Most listening rooms are not well acoustically treated and many speakers have widely radiating tweeters which make the whole ecosystem sensible for unpleasant sound at the top of the frequency range.
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Speakers in most environments are not placed far enough from the back (or if you will front) wall, to be able to dive deeply into imaging/soundstage and hear major differences
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modest to medium sophisticated vinyl rigs (but also high quality ones badly placed or adjusted) due to the little addressed mechanical issues to overcome, usually have e.g. a thicker, less defined bass, a lower bass extension, less exact imaging capability, possibly (depending on the cartridge) little recessed highs and reduced transient response and dynamics compared to good, well balanced DAC‘s of a similar price level or above.
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partly independent of, but mostly caused by the limitations under point 5., such vinyl rigs often provide a richer sound which also seems to inherit more colorful mids (due to the richness) and enables a more relaxed listening to less optimal recordings (of which there are a majority, depending on favorite genre and [non]selection of masterings etc.) The limitations of such rigs in exact imaging are often not resolved in less sophisticated setups due to reduced capability or limitations in speaker placement. With increasing sophistication, vinyl rigs begin to show more and more of the magic hidden in certain/many or most (just as you want) vinyl releases, but it’s a long way to reach/overcome other digital’s strengths.
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very sophisticated vinyl rigs aim to overcome very difficult/expensive to address and implement mechanical limitations, which enables them to achieve or even surpass digital’s strengths by at the same time strongly reveal the magic hidden in analog (or even some digital) recordings, that can’t be revealed by digital (also further production processes) so far it seems.
The strength of modest or medium priced vinyl rigs (mostly judged by folks with matching modest or medium sophisticated setups), but not rarely up to a quite high price level, for the reasons of 1. to 6. is therefore mostly seen as described in 7 in my perception. Many who decided for digital but never more intensively heard different levels of vinyl rigs up to the top, also seem to have this view on the comparison.
The completely different merit of extremely sophisticated vinyl rigs (8.) and the limitation of lower level vinyl rigs compared to similar priced DAC’s, gets most obvious when preconditions are different than 1. to 5.
All this IMO is the reason why lower level vinyl rigs might already beat even higher priced DAC’s in the perception of listeners who are in situations as described in 1. to 7., as the tonality aspects of lower to medium level vinyl rigs rule out the advantageous characteristics of DAC‘s for them, which either play a minor role or are not obvious in their setup. For sure some also have a strong preference for a special characteristic and don’t mind if another one is weak.
For listeners with quite sophisticated full range setups, all the disadvantages of less tweaked out vinyl rigs in bass performance, accuracy, image stability etc. (inspite of their other strengths) are much more obvious and as they are already on a level where tonality is no real issue anymore, they have more focus on maximum revealing performance. This makes an appropriate vinyl rig quite expensive compared to a DAC for them. We’re entering a certain level of perfectionism demand there.
For me it’s absolutely comprehensible that listeners in different audio environments come to very different conclusions at which price point vinyl and digital beat each other, especially if tonality is a critical factor where the one or other just matches a favorable tonality characteristic (even if this should not be a main criteria).
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It is, I have one and it is up for sale. It has an Ortofon 2M Black with a new Ortofon Shibata stylus. Also a Ginko display lid. Wonderful turntable. I think it would ne a conflict of interest to offer it to dancingsea as he is exploring the merits of vinyl playback. It is available on US Audiomart should anyone be interested. Mention this post and I’ll provide a PS Audio package discount. Continental US only.
It has been replaced with a Rega P8 for my wife’s system.
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He’d probably have a hard time finding a dealer who’s willing to set up a “mail order” turntable.