Mastering in Pure DSD - Mixing and EQ with no PCM

[Rushton]

@dvorak

you can do on “DSD” if only you have the computing power to do it at DSD sample rates and are willing to accept that mapping your waveform into a multi-bit sample space doesn’t violate the rules of what you want to consider “DSD”.

I would not disagree. All three of Claude Cellier (founder of Merging Technologies), Jussi Laako and Andreas Koch readily agree that a full function DAW could be developed with all the functionality of Pyramix were sufficient development funding available. I hope it happens some day. But it is not here today nor just around the corner, unless one of you knows about a pending announcement?

[dvorak]

@Rushton

Have you listened to the sample files comparing DXD processed files to Pure DSD?

I have not. But I have no problem accepting that the “Pure DSD” (which is not as pure as people think) have a sonic advantage over something that got filtered down to 384kHz. It’s reducing the sample rate which robs DSD of some of its special character.

[Rushton]

@tedsmith

I was talking about where they are headed (where many are headed in a little time.)

Yes, I hope we will see those future developments. Then perhaps Jared Sacks (Channel Classics) will be able to remaster all of his archived DSD256 tracking channels for his various albums over the years and create wonderful new releases! He’s told me that would be his dream in retirement.

But, my fear is that no one will pursue this because they can’t see the business value of doing so. Thus part of my interest in stirring the pot about mixing in Pure DSD. I’d love to see more companies in addition to Eudora Records, Cobra Records, Hunnia Records and a few other perfectionist niche labels doing this.

Thank you for the conversation!

[dvorak]

I’m not in that industry, no info on potential products. Just discussing the underlying principles.

From an IT perspective, processing a single 32-bit 2.8824MHz data stream is eight times harder than DXD but roughly comparable to 4K uncompressed video – which we do all the time. You won’t get the hundreds of simultaneous channels in ProTools that you’re used to, and maybe some of the more complex effects might not be as practical to make use of, but it’s just a question of practical trade-offs crossing the point where somebody decides it’s worth updating the software to do it.

[stevensegal]

To give you an idea of the mixing capabilities you LOSE by using DSD, see here:

Merging Technologies | Pyramix 14 | Key Features

@dvorak - these are the Pyramid parameters.

@Rushton One thing to bear in mind with Eudora’s manual mixing of DSD tracks, it doesn’t take into account time delay. The Pyramix panning package is input with microphone positions, so time delay is taken into account.

[jazznut]

My listening check worked…and as always I still had to down convert it to DSD64 with the Korg converter because this Airlens still isn’t out

DSD mastering and quality

So I listened to the Protean Quartet and Lost in Venice recordings, both sounding very good and airy 3D, though not with overly reverb. I then also listened to the test tracks and the HQ player processed tracks sound clearly better than the DXD mixed ones. More airy, more organic, more palpable focused. So for me his new option works.

[Rushton]

@DSD mastering and quality

Jazznut: I then also listened to the test tracks and the HQ player processed tracks sound clearly better than the DXD mixed ones. More airy, more organic, more palpable focused. So for me his new option works.

Yes, that’s what my listening partner and I hear. A few other listeners are piping up that they’ve made this listening comparison and have come to similar conclusions.

As noted, my objective in publishing this article on mixing in Pure DSD256 is to share: 1) that it is possible to do this, 2) that some recording/mastering engineers are currently doing it – so it is a real-world capability, and 3) that you can download the comparative file samples and listen for yourself. My hope is that some additional folks making recordings in DSD will try this and perhaps adopt the process for their workflow on recordings where it might make sense.

[stevensegal]

NOTE TO SELF: Get a DSD256-capable DAC.

Meanwhile, here’s a really lovely mostly Italian collection, nice warmish sound, strangely the only piece that doesn’t hit the spot is the opening piece, the famous Vivaldi mandolin concerto.

Arcana is one of the audiophile labels in the Outhere stable. By “audiophile”, they just make good recordings.

[Rushton]

Nice suggestion – I haven’t heard this album, but I’ve liked the Arcana recordings I’ve heard. Need to seek out more.

[stevensegal]

I see your DSD boys at LAWO did a complete Romeo & Juliet, the Oslo Phil under Petrenko and it’s meant to be great.

There was a recent piano mix-up, not Prokofiev’s own transcription, that was superb.

Personally my life is incomplete without seeing R&J at least once a year at Covent Garden. My favourite music and just a great ballet, MacMillan’s first and finest full length ballet. The big controversy was that it was created for Lynn Seymour, but the powers that be substituted Fonteyn and Nureyev for PR and commercial reasons. Even when it comes to performances, you can’t always do what is best artistically, money talks.

Last year was Francesca Hayward and Cesar Corrales, real life lovers, both thankfully still alive.

[Rushton]

@stevensegal

Personally my life is incomplete without seeing R&J at least once a year at Covent Garden

Such a wonderful opportunity to enjoy some great music and dance!

@stevensegal

I see your DSD boys at LAWO did a complete Romeo & Juliet, the Oslo Phil under Petrenko and it’s meant to be great.

I’ll have to play this tomorrow in your honor. It is a wonderful recording. Lawo records in DXD, by the way, and that is the original recording format for this recording.