I’ve not had many issues with A+ 3.5. I still use HQP own its own (with Swinsian for library management), which to me sounds better than intwined with Roon. And I’m not fond of how Roon organizes stuff which led me to think, just what am I paying for??? A super slick interface (which is great) with magazine content I rarely read, organization that doesn’t jibe with my brain, and subpar SQ (to me) on its own all at a huge premium price.
But once again, that’s just me! This is all so very very subjective.
In my experience, all of the “bit perfect” software players sound different.
That suggests to me it is not the actual playback component that is causing the differences but more likely the noise being produced by the computer. Different SW may produce different amounts of noise due to different resource utilisation and thread use. CPUs are supposed to be quite noisy themselves and certain CPUs may be more noisy even under small load differences. This is why I think it helps to have a specially designed server e.g. Nucleus, Innuos etc to minimise this noise.
Okay, now you ear credibility is coming into question. If Roon is feeding the tracks to HQPlayer or HQPlayer is feeding itself, HQPlayer is doing the same exact thing on the playback side. In other words, HQPlayer is the app talking to the DAC or NAA so it’s exactly the same deal either way.
Servers all sound different and there are likely plenty of reasons why. The fact that they (high end servers) are bit perfect, while important, is certainly no guarantee or even an indicator of how they will sound. How they tax the CPU, how they affect the
power supply, how they raise or lower jitter levels are just the tip of the iceberg for sound quality.
Once again, our Mantra, “all of this is subjective”. There are others who also feel that sending Roon through HQP produces lower SQ than HQP by itself. We are not talking about science, but rather art. There is no specific right or wrong.
Credibility when based upon whether or not you agree, is a poor evaluation of credibility.
It would be better put if you said “I disagree, Roon does nothing to inhibit the SQ performance of HQP” rather than call another’s sincere opinion into question as lacking credibility.
We are in the land of cables, and power supplies, and components, and room layouts, etc etc ad nauseam, not to mention very different minds and emotional states at any given moment. It’s nearly impossible to compare apple to apples in this hobby.
In my experience, HQP sounds better on its own. That is perhaps due to having one less software system to run through. Or, its some other unexplainable reason. No matter, it is my honest point of view, and its the honesty that makes it credible
I myself was a disbeliefer regarding Roon. Thought I could manage with minimserver and bubble upnp and the like.
But this weekend I installed Roon on my qnap Nas (Intel i3 with 8gb of ram). And ran the sound through HQPlayer, in a i7 computer that sits in a different room. All comes through fiber to the switch, which goes to UltraRendu, Matrix and finally DSD i2s.
Sound is sweet.
The richness of the interface, with everything being integrated in the screen, the well-written texts about artists and releases, and not having to worry about enriching my metadata made all SQ worries go away.
Said in other words, I don’t know for sure if I am taking a SQ hit. But even in that case, I am willing to trade this hit for the user interface.
To this day, I am admiring more PSAudio’s decision to go solo on Octave. Roon put the bar way up high on the user interface side of things.
I agree, Roon with HQPlayer sounds really good. I had Roon for a year and at first was smitten with it. Over time I became much less enthralled and couldn’t justify the $500 expense, especially after Audirvana 3.5 came out. They’ve mimic the Roon interface and the upgrade was free.
I found I didn’t need or use most of the things Roon does very well.
Also HQPlayer raised their price substantially, $200 to move to HQPlayer 4, thus it was going to be $700 to continue down that road. Just didn’t add up for me
Yeah, it works. Sometimes not for the faint of heart. I had the best results using minim streamer to convert flac to wav24, which was then fed to the ultrarendu (by the way, ultrarendu+matrix beat bridge 2 by a mile).
What bothered me most was curating my metadata (hours and hours with Picard Brainz and mp3tag) and the separation bubble interface imposed between my local music library and qobuz.
Let’s see if down by the road I get tired of Roon.
As for HQPlayer, no reason to upgrade for now. Version 4 offers the same filters as version 3.25.
Agree that MinimServer is not for novices or the feint of heart. But damn, it works well, sounds great and costs . . . nothing (the developer accepts donations, and yes, I donated).
Agree that converting FLAC to wav24 in MinimStreamer sounds best (I have MinimStreamer set to perform this conversion in my Melco).
Agree that the Matrix via I2S crushes the Bridge II for SQ (sold my Bridge II recently, as I was just not using it).
Agree that FLAC and DSF file-tagging can be a PITA, but mp3tag makes it relatively easy.
I tried Roon for year compliments of PS Audio, during which time I shot it out against MinimServer. Roon struck me as bloatware compared to MinimServer. Roon can do a lot of cool stuff that I do not need and that I do not want to do (e.g., commingle TIDAL favorites with FLAC and DSF rips). I understand why people like Roon and I respect those who use it. It is just not how I choose to interface with my recordings.
We agree on everything. It all comes down to convenience (and for me, my mood on that specific period of time - feeling more lime an power user, minimserver route; more like a spoiled customer, Roon).
It’s not a perfect analogy, but I find that Roon is more like Apple’s closed ecosystem while MinimServer is more like the Android open-source operating system (and I switched from iOS to Android for my smart phone needs).
That’s basically what I was thinking. If the software is bit perfect then it can’t be the software itself that is causing the issue at least not directly. It must be the effect of the software on the hardware. That would also explain why people running Roon on bespoke hardware that is designed to minimise noise (as opposed to a regular NUC, mac mini etc) would not have the same issues with sound quality.
Agree that the Matrix via I2S crushes the Bridge II for SQ (sold my Bridge II recently, as I was just not using it).
Not necessarily. In my system the Bridge II is sounding better but there is a large caveat. My Bridge II is fed via the SOTM switch, which is itself only connected to my router optically. Further my Roon Nucleus + also connects to the Sotm using optical cables (Router>Media Converter w. Ifi Power Supply>Fiber>SOTM Switch and Roon Nucleus+ w. LPS>Media Converter w. Ifi Power Supply>Fiber>SOTM). The only ethernet connection used on the SOTM is for the Bridge II.
So this is a more expensive solution than a Matrix + Uptone UPS 1.2 (almost double the price) but it does sound better right now.
Also it should be noted I’ve only had them (Matrix/UPS) for just over a week and they may still need to run in more.
I’m also still waiting for the HT HDMI cable which may change the situation again.
I like the way JRiver sounds. But being from the Mac universe, I found JRiver’s interface to be very confusing and never stayed with it long, even though I own a license. Sound quality wise, on my system, I prefer HQP/ Audirvana/ Amarra Luxe (buggy). Currently, Audirvana is filling the sweet spot of function and sound quality, though I still enjoy listening to DSD on HQPlayer. HQP has a terrible interface, but once you figure it out, its not difficult, though many understandably give up before the green pastures are reached. But HQP has the most sophisticated sound engine of all, there are so many ways to tweak the sound.
Roon is slick and way beyond any of the others in terms of interface, by a long ways. So its very understandable that many are very happy with the Roon/ HQP combo.
Hi bootzilla,
Using MinimServer on Melco as well. Is it easy to convert Flac to wav24 in MinimStreamer. Do I need to use PC to do this? Currently using tablet and bubbleup.
Steve
First you have to download the minim streamer package (you can find it in the “packages” tab of minim server properties). Then you go to “system” tab, and on the last line (named stream.transcode) insert “flac:wav24” (without the double quotes). That’s it. Hope it helps.
Good for you. I think this is great news. As I have said many times, Roon is an excellent product that raises the bar quite high for what a music server should be.
I have my quibbles, the main one being sound quality, but for now, there’s really nothing better I am aware of.
