My Apologies - But I Have To Share - ASR’s review of the SGCD

Audio Components DACs
21

Well, I have listened to both the Gain Cell Dac which i own and one of the units he measured on the higher end of the scale. I use a Topping NX4DSD for my portable rig with headphones. So after reading these measurements I took this morning and did some listening to some tracks that I know well.

I used windows 10 computers running Qobus so that it would be as similar as i could make the listening session. The Topping measures pretty well in his measurements and while it did hold its own much better than I thought it would considering its a small portable head amp dac. The sound had the detail there but it just had that, “The Detail”. The sound did not have the same life that the GCD has. The gain cell dac had all the detail while putting the presentation so that it had warmth and presence that the Topping did not have.

To put it into perspective I have seen $200 stereo receivers that measure way better on paper than my Pass Labs X150.5 but if you listen to them they are in two different time zones on sound. In fact Nelson Pass has been known to introduce more harmonic distortion in to some of the designs because it sounds better when listening.

I would do what was said above. Not give these jokers any more time. They are measurement queens that only care about numbers on a paper not what there ears hear. And they don’t even think about the fact that human hearing is not the same or “flat” from person to person.

3 Likes
22

Nothing surprises me anymore.

I have never experienced more controversy for purchased equipment. I find the unit dead silent without music, it improved my system.

But on the other hand:
Although measurements don’t say everything about sound quality, at least they should back up the claims of fame of the manufacturer. In the case of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, apparently measurement results of this tester do not support pS Audio’s claims of fame, for which I bought the Stellar Gain Cell DAC.

I really look forward to PS Audio’s response. The test above referenced test makes those who invested US$ 1699 into a Stellar Gain Cell DAC feel really bad.

1 Like
23

Appreciate the comparison report…

Cheers.

24

It should not make you feel bad. Let your ears tell you. I have heard both the GCD and a dac he says measured well and I can assure you in listening that measurements aren’t the whole picture and they don’t understand that

1 Like
25

Well, I have no place close to do comparison listening. So I have to trust what a manufacturer claims. If then somebody performs measurements and the results of those measurements do not support the claims of fame it is at least to say very controversial.

Reviews based on listening by reviewers naturally cause different results, that can have many different reasons. Personal preferences not the least of them. So controversies in opinions about how something sounds are normal and don’t bother me so much.

Tiny differences in measurements in measurements results don’t bother me either as it s questionable if the effects are audible.

But, transients in the frequency spectrum where you really don’t expect them due to claims of the manufacturer are different and at least would require a response of the manufacturer, other than that “measurements mean nothing”.

I performed DC voltage measurements due to clearly audible thumps caused by switching to and from the pre configured HT Channel, and also there was a clear difference between the left and right hand channel. No only with my unit but also with units of other owners. Full reports are in other threads on this forum. The effects were not only audible but could be clearly measured, by logging the DC Voltage behaviour on both RCA and XLR outputs of the pre amplifier section. DC Voltage levels drifted between certain mV levels, seemingly uncontrolled. But even back then (months ago) one questions was raised several times: " Why were the DC voltage drifts, levels and audible discharges of the right hand channel so much worse then of the left hand channel?

The ASR report confirms a clearly measured difference between both channels.

Now while I am rather disappointed about this, I won’t loose any sleep over it. I reported it to PS Audio, they let me know that they felt it was the best they could achieve. Even if I don’t like that answer, the damage is done. Because, trying to send the unit back to the dealer in exchange for something different will confront me with unacceptable depreciation of value. So I keep it in my home office. I indeed still like the sound and there is apart from the ELAC Alchemy DDP-2 no similar device with the interfaces that I appreciate out there. The Stellar looks better then the DDP-2.

However, a manufacturer selling a US$ 1699 (or EUR 1800 - EUR 2050) worth of equipment should have the claims of fame backed up by measurements.

I hope that ASR has it wrong and that PS Audio either has better test results or can explain why the Stellar sounds so much better than what measurement results indicate.

4 Likes
26

While I love the way my GCD sounds and have already talked about the sound comparison I have done. if PS Audio has any in house measurements to publish to shut this up it would be great. I do not or have not noticed any channel imbalance or anything that you have described on mine

27

Good measurements or poor measurements, an audio equipment review that ends with I didn’t listen to it because I don’t have time is irresponsible.
Shame!

5 Likes
28

And how exactly do measurements sound?

29

Sure, but WHY it has measured so poorly? Like I understand his bias towards measurements and against high end DACs, however, the same measurements on Chord DACs have resulted in much better results… so, how can you, Ted, explain the massive gap between PS Audio measurements and others?

I am a bit shocked to see how a simple 1Khz signal could have so much distortion and harmonics, it just doesn’t look good. If anyone could explain this, I am all ears!

2 Likes
30

I cannot explain it, but I am not Ted. :wink:

2 Likes
31

Thanks, just doesn’t make sense. Here’s another high end DAC by Bryston, it measures fine.

32

Bryson amps measure incredibly well. I am not particularly fond of their sound though. THD on a Bryston is like .0001%. But I find them a little clinical.

33

Even the older DAC, NuWave does much better here:

There must be some explanation!

34

@abeiklou - may I ask what car do you drive?

35

It’s now actually comical seeing a few folks so insecure about their gears despite of knowing how they sound. My popcorns are ready.

36

Yes it does and that should tell you all you need to know.

1 Like
37

If you guys want to bash on the GCD then why not do it on the Audio Science site where you kids can play. Why go trolling another forum. If you like the chinese dacs then like them. I could care less. They do measure good but I have been around enough to know that good measurements don’t always translate into great sound. I have heard good measuring equipment sound bad and vise a versa. Do you think they put tube mic preamps onto singers in a studio because they like to dance around looking at the glowing lights!!! no they do it because it ads a sense of smoothness and warmth to the vocal even though they probably do not measure well. Nuff said

3 Likes
38

For a different (and more insightful) slant on the whole “measurement vs SQ” thing, readers can peruse the Iconoclast cable thread - especially the posts by the designer, Galen Gareis - if they haven’t already. His approach embraces both measured performance of cable designs as well as (as yet) unexplained differences in SQ relating to differences in copper conductors that otherwise measure identically. The designer’s art seems to be knowing the limits of theory and practice, as each informs the other.

Being an Old Fart, I remember the measurement vs SQ arguments in audio publications as amplifier design went through measurement minimization of THD, slew rate, transient intermodulation distortion, damping factor, negative feedback, yadda, yadda. It takes true intellectual curiosity on the part of a thoughtful designer to figure out the meaning of what is possible to be measured.

1 Like
39

I think there’s a valid question as to “why are the measurements so bad”? Does Ps audio not perform measurements?

3 Likes
40

The question is: when making a measurement, is the measurement measuring design and engineering choices that drive SQ or something unrelated?

If our collective hearing does not validate that a particular measured parameter equates with SQ, then the primary question should be “why not?” What is being missed?