As I straddle the divide between objective and subjective I won’t make any comments. Except one - the Gain Cell has been one of the big selling points for me as I contemplate my next purchase. Seeing it perform rather badly makes me question why I shouldn’t just get a pre with a pot in it. I mean subjective sound quality is one thing but a noisy volume control is entirely different.
3 Likes
So if you bought the Gain Cell or DS DAC because you heard or felt that they would sound awesome (and they both do) , then all of a sudden you stumble across an internet stereo evangelist who is going to save you from the measurement devil do either one of the DACs suddenly begin to sound bad? I didn’t think so. They both still sound awesome. Just turn off that channel and go listen to your stereo. Pretty simple really.
6 Likes
Completely agree.
Those measurements are shocking for the price of the item. There are standards in audio engineering, just like in My other engineering disciplines. One cannot just ignore them. I think that a detailed comment from PS Audio, addressing all the numerous shortcomings identified by the review, is just be fair and definitely necessary to preserve the good reputation.
1 Like
TROLL ALERT!!! (o2so- Posted 3 hours ago ### Joined 3 hours ago)TROLL ALERT!!!
3 Likes
If I had bought either of the 2 and I was happy I wouldn’t care. As a matter of fact I own and listen to a Schiit Bifrost which has even worse measurements. But I love the sound so I don’t care. The point I’m trying to make is that the Gain Cell volume control is (to me) the biggest selling point (the DS DAC is out of my budget so I have nothing to say about it). Again, subjective listening to an overall sound is one thing - but a volume control that does exactly the opposite of what it’s claimed to do is completely different. In other words, keep everything the same (crappy DAC measurements and all) if that’s what the sonic signature is supposed to be. But give me a clean volume control with it.
Why troll? Because he/she has a different point of view?
Agreed
I read it. Their conclusion was priceless. To paraphrase, ‘if you don’t care about my test findings and actually like the way it sounds, that’s because you’re ignorant. You just don’t know how to listen critically, etc’. Oh brother.
3 Likes
Hi o2so, here’s an actual welcome to the forum. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts on the topic at hand versus posting snarky comments aimed at new members.
1 Like
Yep - the conclusion was generally garbage. However, I’d still like a volume control that does what it claims to do if I’m to buy the unit.
1 Like
@Jedi. Rather than harp on the specs of the SGC Dac - asking for justification for the specs will not change the specs - may I suggest a Benchmark DAC2 DX. It has both a volume and a remote, and is currently on sale for less than $100 more than the SGC Dac. More importantly, if that is what you are looking for, it measures well.
What matters to me is what he doesn’t have. And he doesn’t have any of the PS Audio products.
Good golly Miss Molly. What can I say? I spent the weekend not paying attention to this fellow’s measurements so I’ll suggest the following now that it’s Monday. And it’s a beautiful day.
I glanced at his measurements briefly. He’s showing SGCD with a distortion level of 0.04% at its worse levels. Horrors! That’s 400 hundredths of a percent! My lord in heaven we should be horsewhipped and hornswoggled for releasing such an abomination on the world. Can we be forgiven?
I hope he doesn’t measure anything else from us because guess what he’ll find. On some products we’re approach on tenth of a fricking percent!! Good lord.
Now, another way to look at this is how I do. We’re quite proud of those measurements. Had we strived, as some do, for vanishing low distortion the product would likely sound like dog poo. Or, put another way, as sterile and mechanical as so many of our competitors do. And you know what? If that’s the sound you’re looking for then that’s just fine. But, don’t look here.
We build our products to measure respectfully and sound amazing. Sound quality is by far our main focus. Once you start doing things like minimizing feedback, running high bias levels and using FETs—at least in the ways that we do for best sound quality—your THD rises. That’s a good thing if done properly.
I would suggest this fellow go play in another playground.
21 Likes
I agree with this graph!!
1 Like
Thank you for coming in and giving an answer on this. I have owned a Gain cell for several months and love it. I have compared my portable dac i use with my headphones on the go to the gain cell dac. My portable is one of the ones he measures as great and while it does have loads of detail it also does not have the warmth and musical qualities the gain cell has. I also brought up that I own a Pass X150.5 and it doesn’t have great measurements either but when listening it kills amplifiers that measure better in SQ
3 Likes
You have a strange kind of humor. There is nothing comical about spending so much money on a piece of equipment that seems to measure so badly.
3 Likes
Well, your reaction just proved it. Thanks for the much needed laugh on a Monday.
EXACTLY? Why should it be mutually exclusive? Like is it not possible to make a DAC that sounds great, YET measures OK? Like, I don’t believe for a second that the BEST measured equipment would automatically be the best sounding, however, could a device that measures horribly sound good? Like it’s a legit question… my engineering mind contradicts the notion.
When it came to DS, I accept Ted’s explanation and that the noise floor was pretty low generally, but the measurements here are just more concerning.
Thanks Paul, so based on that, you’re saying in order to have perfect measurements, you must introduce filters, FETs, etc… which would impact sound quality while may produce better measurements? Like is it possible for have a great sounding DAC that measures fine too? or just not really possible with current technology or at this price point?
Er, actually 4 hundredths of a percent it seems. I think listening should come first. Measurement is only important to either explain sound particularities or to gauge compatibility with other equipment. “Measurement first” mentality is back-asswards.