No, it’ll likely be the price for the mid level pair which has already morphed into something closer to the top dog - having now 8 tweeters so it is identical to Arnie’s original IRS killer. Like I said, these are quite preliminary images and are still in a state of major flux.
It seems as if there’s some opposition to the woofer in the front? We originally had the woofer in the side, something I have never been a fan of technically, but then noticed due to the width of the cabinet because of the AMT midrange we had just enough room to put it on the front.
Aesthetically this move seems to have put off some folks not wanting to see the woofer. Am I misreading this?
The wood sides are trim panels and can be replaced with anything we want. It’ll be the way people change its look. We can do whatever makes sense to stock, like piano black, or white, or different woods. We definitely understand these are furniture and need to fit into people’s homes so they can have many different side panel trims to choose from.
Does that do it or are you unhappy with the basic form factor?
We could have had two if we went back to side mounted woofers. Still an option, though it would not help to make the speaker any slimmer. My objection to the side firing woofer is more technical than anything, though I am not abject to it.
Given that the woofer is a servo controlled 12" device with loads of power behind it, it’ll kick the bass ass of an old Infinity every way from Sunday. So you won’t pine for more bass unless you want ludicrous mode. Having a second 12" woofer (if we side mounted them) wouldn’t give you much more bass - at least technically. So, I wonder if this is an aesthetic thing?
The way this will break down, probably, will suggest BHKs for both the top two models (AN1 and AN2). Stellar for the AN3.
The middle one (AN2) has morphed again and is not going to represent the identical speaker Arnie designed with (now) 8 tweeters in the front and one in the rear. With 3 AMT folded midrange ribbon midranges, 2 8" servo controlled midbass couplers and the single 12" servo controlled woofer, this middle speaker will be the star of our show. The one to aspire to. It will be this speaker that we start the design process on because it will be the one identical to Arnie’s IRS Killer. We have on hand this very speaker, Arnie’s last work representing a lifetime of thought and experience and it is this speaker we will model the line on.
The smaller AN3 will be the best we can manage based on the central design AN2 and be our entry level speaker, while the mighty AN1 will be ludicrous mode. What The Arnold would have done taking the next step beyond the IRS Killer. The AN1 will be sold by reservation only, waiting list, expensive, rare. It’s a big beast and we don’t plan on making many. The AN2 will be the star of our show.
I didn’t want to criticize the drafts! You surely are proud of them and you have every right to be proud. Great work and I’m sure it took you a lot of time!
Everyone has a different taste and you can’t nail it for everyone.
If the aim is to make the speakers modern and clean looking and to fit most modern homes, I just think that one should try to make them as slim as possible and use clean edges. Cubic designs work well.
Seeing the woofer is no problem. It’s just the circumstance that a 12 inch woofer at the front forces the speaker to be at least 12 inches wide. But like I said: that only makes a modern design more difficult in my opinion, not impossible.
Again: Just sharing thoughts Don’t want to criticize someones work.
Because you asked the question about why no more tweeters in the middle one, dubbed the AN2, we were able to take a closer look to the artist’s rendering and realized you were right and changed our focus.
The whole process is an interesting one. We spend time with the artist and configure the speakers almost like we’re seasoning a meal. “Try three and three and see what it looks like”. No thought goes into functionality or even purpose. This is just spitballing at its finest.
But once you mentioned the more tweeters thought we realized “of course!” the AN2 IS the IRS Killer, the one we started with. The bigger model, what we call Ludicrous Mode, is what Arnie and I were dreaming about to beat the IRS Killer. Now looking at the line a little closer as we start thinking about driver selection and purpose, it’s clear we need to simply copy what Arnie did in the Killer for AN2 and base the entire line around this magnificent piece.
As has been said of the few that have heard the Killer in Arnie’s living room, “if you can build that and make it sound as good for anything less than $50K, it’ll be the best loudspeaker in the world.” We can and will.
BTW, I am noodling with the idea of taking Arnie’s original IRS Killers to RMAF as our speakers. It’s risky because they are prototypes with wires and capacitors with clip leads hanging on by slim threads, but it would be a lovely opportunity for people to see a one of a kind treasure.
Side firing woofers are always problematic and I will do my best to avoid them. While at Genesis they were my idea in the first place, an idea Arnie hated at first, but later warmed to when he realized it made it easier to make a slimmer speaker. I twisted his arm until it nearly broke and got my way, something I now regret having started in the industry. Now it seems it’s all the rage, but I wish I had never come up with the notion. It is definitely inferior performance wise.
My 2 pennies, I was glad to see the front firing woofers as side firing would not work for me with my limited real estate, they would be firing right into some other furniture that can’t be moved (the wife thing). I also was glad to see the wood panels. I am older and like the old school wooden look of fine furniture as apposed to the look of an appliance. I think the younger folks are more for the “High Tech” look. What I see also is that the two top tiers are quickly rising beyond my price range
No, no. Keep them coming. They are very much appreciated. It’s why I posted these original specs and thoughts. I want to share and get opinions.
The aim is to make them desirable for people and sonically correct. I shied away from “modern” as a look because as soon as we choose a “look” we’ve already alienated a ton of people who don’t want modern. What we were going for is iconic without going too far in any one direction. Add to that design requirement the ability to trim the piece in a way that fits the home, and we really narrow choices down.
The width is dictated not by the woofer but by the requirement to have the critical AMT folded midrange ribbon on one side and the ribbon tweeters next to it in a line array. The 12” woofer just happens to fit that.
The exception to this is the AN3 entry speaker which only has one of everything and thus it is best to place the tweeter on top of the midrange.
Yes, understood and that’s why we’ll have a lot of effort put into the AN3 because it will be the mainstay of what we sell to people. Though the AN2 will be the one to aspire to at $20K, it is still quite a lot of money. Though to put that in perspective, what you can get for $20K won’t even come close to what this speaker will be able to do and the satisfaction it will bring.
Still, the under $10K AN3 will be the one we sell the most of.
Just like Willy, I’m also very happy about the advantages of a front firing woofer. Side firing woofers would fire into my wall and my TV lowboard.
I really like the look of AN3 with one of every driver in a line! Gives it a more gentle and elegant look.
The vertical edges of the front baffle seem to be rounded/curved a bit? Maybe solely use straight, clean lines instead. Then let each side of the box (top, bottom, left, right) taper a bit towards the back (trapezial shape). The base plate having a smaller footprint than the actual box also makes the speaker look bulkier I guess. Maybe use some sleek aluminium feet instead? Maybe those things together with the dark wood panels on the side make drafts look a bit bulky and “grandpa style” as n-tone said
If the width wouldn’t be dictated by the ribbon midrange and tweeter, one could think about using two 10" woofers instead of one 12" for example. Or have you thought about a down firing woofer? Sonus Faber for example makes some huge speakers with huge down firing woofers, that look slim and sexy because it allows them to design their speakers in the so called “Lute Shape”.
I am sure, this will be a killer speaker. Just quite tall already
My current speakers seem to be about the size of your small ones, they just have a greater depth by a factor of 1.6 minimum I guess. Every non-audiophile (I hardly know any audiophiles) who came into the living room (which is 430 ft^2 anyhow), said, these are the biggest speakers they ever saw, not only in a living room. Means: everything even bigger than this is hardly placeable outside of dedicated listening rooms to folks other than audiophiles unfortunately, especially if volume goes into height and width
From a design and aesthetical perspective, I always prefer speakers which are much deeper in relation to their width, this also makes them smaller to look at from the front. Just like Arnie’s prototype, even if it was more boxy. So the design/dimensioning is my only complaint regarding the current draft.
Concerning the presentation of Arnie’s prototype at RMAF I’m sure everyone who is at least as much insider as we here in this forum are, would be very much interested.
I’m not sure, if it would have a pure positive implication to most others, as it seems, you will later show up with a very different, simpler design (even if we set personal taste aside). That would be my only concern.
Looks like even the 3 will be a little pricey for me @ near 10K. Too bad you can’t fit those drivers in a stand mount option for those of us who like the sat-sub systems. I’m sure they’ll sound awesome tho.
Even if that question was not put to me…in my case it all has an influence. To me the current draft looks like a very simple, conservative design. Probably the front firing woofers are responsible for the need of a tall design and make it looking…well…as most speakers (except for the ribbons certainly). As I said previously, the form factor (possibly also related to the woofer implementation, but not only) seems also very traditional to me, it follows just every speaker of especially lower price ranges in my eyes. I’m sure you’d get the materials and finish right, but the pure form factor in rough and finer design as well as front and side look is just „ok“ for me. The only reason I would want to own them is their technical design specs and expected sound. But tastes are very different. It just seems to me, you wanted to take no risk at all with the design and keep costs low.
I also had the information so far that side firing woofers are not preferable and I think also with front firing woofers you still have various design options…I guess so far not that much time went into various outer design drafts and finer aspects of design. So maybe too much commented at this stage.
Hope the open word is still welcome, just my opinion.
Don’t want to criticize someones work.
