New PS Audio speakers?

It was in a video, it should be a couple of years old now, at the very beginning of the speaker design endeavour.

Anyway, the problem, if it is a problem, is not the missed high sensitivity target, but that having 87 dB sensitivity may (or may not according to some other posters) limit the ability to use tube amplifiers.
Renato

That was funny! Are you trying to tell us something, Paul? :grinning:

1 Like

The new speakers are of average sensitivity. A tube amp which will drive the average speaker will easily drive the new PS Audio speakers.

The only issue would be with flea amps as these amps produce only a watt or two of power. These little amps are able to drive very few speakers in any event and are a specialized exception.

6 Likes

I hooked up an old Cary Audio tube amp that is 20 watts to my 87 db, 4 ohm speakers, just to give it a try. And the sound was clear and wonderful well into the mid 80 db range.
I think we worry too much about power.

6 Likes

And if you order the FR30 and are not happy with your amps performance you can always send the speakers back.

2 Likes

They are 87 db sensitivity speakers, 4 ohm nominal impedance dropping to 3.2 ohm minimum impedance. See the specs. These are the manufacturer specs. That’s what they are.

Magnepan 20.7, and Magnepan in general, are notoriously one of the most difficult speakers to drive (see thread on BHK 250 and the LRS). The Magnepan 20.7 has sensitivity 86 db, and is also a 4 ohm nominal. See spec here Magnepan

I’m not saying FR30 are as hard to drive as the Maggie, but to call them average sensitivity (which omits the 4 ohm nominal part, but )? Okay…

Take a closer look how Magnepan states their sensitivity rating… 500Hz/2.83V vs the “industry standard” 1kHz/1W. Basically, Magnepan would be about 82-83dB efficient with the same rating…

Plus dipolar planar speakers loads the room differently, which is also why you many times needs gobs and gobs of current for Magnepan.

1 Like

Ah, if that’s true then I stand corrected. Didn’t look closely to see if same methodology. Just was struck by the claim that 87db, 4 ohm down to 3.2 was “average.” Anyway, I posted the link to the Maggie spec, and I just quoted from their site, and didn’t allege anything about FR30 relative to Maggie (specifically made the point not to).

At end of day FR30 are 87 db, 4 ohm nominal, 3.2 ohm minimal, per PSA’s own spec. That’s it.

Maybe Dynaudio, another notroriously difficult speaker to drive, historically, is a better comparison. The $21k Confidence 30 has sensitivity of 88 db, 4 ohm nominal, and 2.8 ohm minimum. See spec Confidence 30 - Meet our smallest floor standing speaker - Dynaudio

As I always say, if you are buying your speakers to fit your amp, you’re doing it backwards. Find the speakers you want, then get an appropriate amp for your chosen speakers - you’ll be much happier in long run.

You may find it helpful to review this post which addresses average speaker sensitivity according to Stereophile’s John Atkinson, along with additional information regarding the new speakers:

2 Likes

I did. That’s 11 year old data and includes standmounts, which are almost always much lower sensitivity than floorstanders. But I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that statistic, just not sure how relevant it is to 2022 floorstanders, that’s all. We could place a bet on who could find more current floorstanders that have easier to drive specs than the FR30 versus harder and see who wins :grinning:

(jk, I’d need to be compensated to go to that level of work, haha)

I agree that there will be tube amps that can drive FR30. Not all, but some. I disagree with poster that said futile to drive with tube amps

I wonder about this discussion about the amp/speaker fit. I think it is as it is, because there are mostly not those discussing, who really consider buying this speaker.

At the end, no audiophile anyway wants an amp, which “can just drive” a speaker. Audiophiles usually want a near perfect match at a price point.

IMO those who consider buying it, usually already have SS or hybrid amps of the BHK category or larger tube amps, which will fit without problems. If not, I bet, they will have them after a few years. Not because smaller amps can’t drive this speaker, but because the speaker will probably pay back well on improved power handling and bass control etc.

Tell me who of you, having a small SS or tube amp considers buying such a speaker and aims to keep the amp? If there’s someone, I’d give you a constructive hint on how to better plan the development of your setup :wink:

I think owners of small SS amps or low powered and low-priced tube amps or integrateds, who don’t have the money to upgrade the amp, won’t have the money to buy those speakers. They might buy the smaller upcoming ones. They may be able to drive this speaker well, but it will probably make as much sense as putting narrow tires on a Porsche.

Owners of low powered but high priced and high quality tube amps (triode concepts or similar) will be on a different planet speaker-wise anyway (horns, high efficiency speakers etc.) and are aware of the compromises those speakers have on the other hand.

For all others, there will be no problem.

Maybe I start a new thread some time, discussing “how to find out what you really want” :wink:

6 Likes

So are you guys saying my headphone amp won’t drive these? And it looks like they need 1KW of power just to wake them up in the morning. This is all terrible and everything is wrong and life sucks!!!

Seriously, audiophiles are weird as hell.

10 Likes

Precisely, first select a speaker that you will enjoy and works well with the intended space, then optimize the sound with a partnering amplifier that brings out the best of the speaker/room. Selecting and mating amps solely on the basis of published specifications, manufacturer’s claims, and audio reviews is folly at best. Those interested in the speakers should take Paul up on his in home trial offer, and plan for a “change in amplification”. Changing speakers in general tends to be a rather significant move, unlikely best served by the purchaser’s current amplification.

1 Like

You nailed it, @Jedi

Also weird is the need to engage in such critical hyperbole of a speaker we have not yet met.

Given PS Audio’s track record and philosophy, I expect the speaker to be, at a minimum, very good and an excellent buy. It will likely exceed my expectations however. This is what this company does.

So why all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments?

6 Likes

Also, no one buying these speakers is going to be pairing them with a $4000 40w amp like a Primaluna, it will be more like a $15,000 dollar power amp and $10,000 pre amp.

2 Likes

Well I don’t remember even one person speculating that the speaker wouldn’t be very good or a poor value or buy. The discussion has simply been regarding PSA’s msrp of $28.5k, PSA’s choice of manufacturing in China, and PSA’s own specifications of 87 db and 4 ohm, and it hasn’t been overly critical given those choices, which are what they. That’s really all there is to talk about at this point, right? (well not all, but the looks/appearance had also been widely previously discussed - since the release blurb I mean). No widespread “gnashing of teeth” or “critical hyperbole,” haha.

That’s 'cuz nobody has been able to actually hear them yet . . .
:roll_eyes:

… cue well beaten deceased horse

3 Likes

I am worried. The demands on an amplifier to drive these average sensitivity speakers will destroy the local electrical grid. My neighbors will be after me with torches - and not in a good way; no marshmallows.

6 Likes

“rending of garments”? Did you say "rending of garments? Oh brother, you’re surely getting beat up after school for that one.

2 Likes

That paints a picture. Deep thinkers do not often do well in the school yard. I’m surprised Elk is still positively engaged in herding us audio cats.

3 Likes