To me this is an easy answer. PSA is building to music server to compete with Roon (This is PSA’s comment). If Roon wasn’t the leader in the industry, it wouldn’t be one of the most talked about here on this forum.
What I find funny is PSA’s server doesn’t even compete directly with Roon. PSA’s server is going to compete with Aurender and others. Yes i know you can loop in Roon’s Nucleus server but Roon is known for the interface as you mentioned.
Elk has neither direct or indirect experience of Roon.
Competing with Roon would suggest people could use Octave software instead of Roon to control non-PS Audio devices/ I don’t think that’s the plan.
You can get a decent server with GREAT software for $500 (Bluesound Node 2i and BluOs). So for $6,000 I would expect GREAT hardware and decent front-end software, but at that price you are paying for world-class hardware, not necessarily the best software. Bear in mind the dCS bridge is cheaper at $4,250, but it does not have internal storage. $6,000 is putting it up against Aurender and Antipodes.
I run on Apple iMac as a server, Apple TV as streamer, iOS devices and iPods as portable synchronized devices, they all tap from the same library. It’s quite convenient the user interface is very satisfactory. Because I travel a lot the iOS devices and iPods which are capable of storing and playing my entire library in Apple Lossless or ALAC (for what I purchased from the iTunes store) play a big role in my music listening habits. Especially when driving long distances alone.
I have the same metadata and playlists anywhere I am. Bit Perfect on the iMac connected to my SGCD via USB sounds quite good.
Any dealer I have visited however used Roon to demonstrate speakers and amplifiers, in The Netherlands and Germany that was. The excellent part of that is that you have access to sheer endless music in rather high quality and the user interface and search engine, also for classic and organ music was not bad, even better my wife grabbed the iPad and even managed to find the music she wanted to listen to, it’s very intuitive.
Now if PS Audio truly manages to marry an equally intuitive UI with high end sound quality for a Stellar price it looks like an attractive system. But it would need to sound considerably better than my iTunes / BitPerfect set up.
Untrue. I have seen a number of demos and have played with it. But, as I stated, “I know no one personally who has it, but my impression is most who have Roon do so because of the interface.”
That is, the only position I am taking is stating my impression “most who have Roon do so because of the interface.” This remains my impression as here, and elsewhere, people rave about the interface - and secondarily defend Roon’s sound.
I take no position as to how Roon addresses multiple systems. This is of no interest to me in any event. I acknowledge others find this important.
I for one use Roon for the interface. I find no SQ difference when comparing Roon to Minimserver+bubble, all other things equal. So that’s irrelevant for me.
My kids listen to music in their bedroom also using roon. That’s a nice feature, but it was not the main reason for me to invest. Interface and metadata convenience are unbeatable.
PSAudio should really consider implementing a Roon endpoint in theirs server (just like Innuos did). It would tap in a very large niche that got accostumed to roon but wants to simplify the several boxes used for sound quality, specially when using usb.
At $6,000 it will be competing directly with Innuos Zenith. That’s tough competition.
Although I originally bought Roon for the interface, I now use it very effectively as a server. I built an i7 NUC Fan-less in an AKASA case and installed ROCK. The implementation is a pared down version of UNIX. That said, I’m a Windows guy. It’s simple to build and transparent to use. I would have to see something magical to drop $6K on a new offering. A Roon endpoint would be ideal for the sake of continuity.
Interface? I use Roon for the feature set that happens to have a really nice interface. Although I listen to mostly my own music ripped (CDs and SCADs) and stored on the sonicTransporter i5 that is my Roon Core, I also explore music using Qobuz. The way Qobuz seamlessly integrates into my own local library is a key feature. Another key feature is the ability to have multiple zones with hardware from many different manufactures playing at the same time. The “different manufactures” part is VERY important!! Another key feature is the ability to use HQPlayer.
Most of my early issues with ROON were related to trying to run it off a NAS. Once I migrated it to an i7 Notebook and ultimately to a ROCK server it’s been a joy to use. I love exploring new music via Tidal and Qobuz. The level of detail that’s available is quite amazing. It makes music just that much more accessible and enjoyable. It’s going to be a hard act to follow. They’ve been refining the offering for years and it shows. Is it perfect, no but it’s certainly special.
Interesting all this talk about the UI. I have jriver. Can access it via a tablet or walk up to my laptop and search my library. Music plays. I sit and wait for the laptop display to go away. I’m sure if I had the ultimate UI I might get hooked into it - but would probably stop hearing the music as well as I would be fiddling with the UI.
I used JRiver for several years. It’s good, but, Roon is a much better experience, IMO. Lot’s of info, and, great SQ.
I was so pleased with jRiver that I could not imagine why I would even consider Roon. Then I tried Roon. Bub-buy jRiver. My friend who kept telling me “Just get Roon” said it more times than he should have, and I’m glad he did.
I’ve said this before but perhaps it bears repeating. And it’s likely not going to make the community happy. Nor will the answer be short.
The dilemma we face about creating a Roon end point for Octave runs deep to the core of why we built Octave in the first place. We are building Octave so that we may control the end to end experience for our users. In this way, we can ensure a
level of performance unachievable with leveraging 3d party apps. And Roon is a 3d party app that relies upon 3d party hardware.
As many of you may or may not remember, this isn’t our first run at building a music server. Long before there was Roon, we built eLyric. It was one of the very first music servers out there (though in fairness Roon was once Sooloos which came
before eLyric). We invested more than I care to remember in eLyric and it was, in the end, not what we had hoped it would be. It was based on 3d party software elements that we wove together. The same can be said of the Bridge. While it’s a great product and
I love the Bridge, it is frustrated (and sometimes our customers too) because it’s a 3d party product we engineered around. And Roon is too. When Roon has an issue we’re at a loss to help until they decide to fix it. And once they do then we have to scramble
to figure out how to implement their changes and beat up our 3d party vendor to do the same.
I remember the last one with Roon when Apple changed their OS and Roon had to issue public apologies etc. because in the end, Roon is running on 3d part software too (the computer’s OS). And meanwhile our customers bear the brunt of this mishegas.
From day one Octave has been built from the ground up on Linux without using any 3d party bits that haven’t been scrubbed and implemented the way we want. Once launched, the decision to upgrade the OS or to upgrade Octave, is entirely up to us
(no OS updates from Microsoft or Apple). This ends the constant nightmare of not being in control of what happens. No longer do we worry about guaranteeing sound quality because yes, sound quality in a server varies from OS to OS, from computer to computer,
from Roon to whatever you are using.
Were we to add a Roon end point to Octave we give up control and are again at the mercy of their sound quality, of their decisions, of the sound of the computer’s required to run them, of the networks required to distribute them, of the metadata
and matches they decide on, etc. Just imagine for a moment from our viewpoint. We offer you a $6K server we are touting as the best sounding and performing music server/streamer yet made (and we tout this because it’s true). You install it,
use Roon to control it, and let us know that it “sounds a bit better than what you had but overall it’s not a lot different/better than what came before it” and thus we have failed to meet our promise to you. Our people ask, “are you running Octave or Roon?”
And you answer Roon and then we say, well, if you stop doing that and run Octave you’ll fix what’s wrong, and you say “that’s not why I bought this. My old server did this or that or sounded this way or that way” and what do we say other than sorry? I am not
in this to say “sorry”.
I can hear it now. “Yeah, ok, just give us the choice. We can decide for ourselves how much better Octave is or isn’t”. And, that’s a good point for some and a possible solution, yet for most people, they want to buy a product and have it work.
One and done. And that’s how it should be.
The whole thing is messy and not within keeping of the purity of purpose we have envisioned for the product.
So, now you know what we’re wrestling with.
Octave is far more than hardware. It feels disingenuous to sell it as just a piece of hardware because it is designed from the ground up to be used as an entity. And, as an entity, it will deliver what we promise. Hobble it and we’ve now delivered
less than its essence.
We’re still thinking and looking inwards for answers.
It cannot be everything to everyone.
Thank you, Paul. This makes perfect sense.
Thanks, Elk. It was long winded and for that I apologize. And I know it’ll not make people happy.
And we haven’t yet made a final decision.
And we know we’ll sell fewer units if we do not cater to Roon.
But I am currently leaning in the direction of purity and alright with selling less to maintain it.
Which is you prerogative…
Best of luck with the endeavor to you and your team.
Good plan, digital streamed music is complex with way too many options (I speak as an IT pro)folks who want to string together multiple gadgets etc can stick with roon and self build or other streamers, and have all the associated grief and interest if they wish 
Right. The easier we can make this the better experience people will have.
Again, this is all still up in the air and no final decision has yet been made. I just wanted to share the thought process with the community.
It’s always hard when torn between giving everyone what they want and sticking to a vision.
Your post was not long-winded, but informative. I like information.
Everything involves choices and compromise.
Keeping everything in-house makes sense if the goal is to offer one of the best players available.
There are already many players/servers which service Roon. Why bother if all one is going to do is offer yet one more?
Thank You @Paul for this information. Makes perfect sense and I completely support you and PSA in this strategy. To be blunt, I trust PSA much more so than Roon for superior sound quality.
This is in fact my main goal with spending, what some would say are silly amounts of money on high end audio. Given the choice of just a 1% improvement in sound experience vs a smoother UI experience, I will choose the sound quality everyday without hesitation. This is not to say that Octave will not rival Roon or equal Roon in UI experience either.
I very much look forward to the release of Octave and will be first in line to try it out
This level of discussion and transparency for me is unprecedented. That is the main reason I keep coming back to this forum and PSAudio.
We may disagree about the development decision (I definitely do, but hey, it is just me), but it is impossible not to be touched by your generosity and commitment to the community.
I wish all the best with Octave, and I will be willing to help with ideas should they be necessary further on up the road.
Congrats again.