Octave Records PS Audio

interested in your ears re track 4, 1964

original version is better, except maybe for FR30s

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As on track one I already heard quite the same as you on track one and 4, I guess it will be the same.

My guess is, the main goal of the new mix was to create a deeper soundstage and match it to the FRā€˜s tonality.

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agreed

Heard it now, yes, it’s as if (exaggerated) on the remaster the bassist plays with gloves on a bass with a towel over the strings.

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The new mix got rid of the excessive EQ on the top end and created a much more natural presentation of the actual recording. I have found that the mix engineer, Steven’s speakers are really down on the top end and he always jacks up the EQ to compensate. All that was removed and now, on the aspens and any other flat speaker, it should sound like instruments.

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Maybe an Aspen Studio Monitor should be in the works?

otherwise not so much

so, need a list of ā€˜flat speakers’, though since FR30 is the studio/mixing monitor, FR30s may be required for ā€˜best’ presentation of Paul’s intent

Ok, I had no problems with the top end on the old mix, even if it might have the one or other dB above flat and I didn’t perceive it as annoyingly brighter than average or unnatural sounding on top end.

I also never read in the forum, that folks found the Mervine or any other early Octave recording too bright and I certainly didn’t read it from you at the time of release on your IRSV :wink:.

Not sure if the top end was a real major problem of the first mix, except if one has a brightness-sensible chain like a B&W on a stone floor or so. And I’d say if the old Mervine sounds unnaturally bright, many other (good and audiophile recordings) do even more.

For me, both versions are in an acceptable range, I just had not only one but a few points where sound developed in the other direction on the new mix. To me it somehow sounds partly more limited and tweaked in an overall less helpful direction except for the increased depth and drumset palpability.

It would be very interesting how the same EQ’ing would sound with the analog mixing to see what the new EQ and what the Pyramix mixing does or not. It would also be interesting which EQ’ing modifications you used in detail (also aside of the top end) and what you changed in the mix.

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important point

Today I compared the track ā€œFriendsā€. Here the new mix has trumpet and especially drumset! shifted to the right instead of the middle this time…odd.

I noticed that the very top end, although different, is not as striking as the recessed treble below and especially the kind of discoloration throughout the mids and again the somehow damped character of the whole (independent of the different top end energy).

I must say this new mix and EQ’ing is really a very odd and even somehow not right sounding approach on my setup compared to the previous (but not really wrong sounding without comparison), as if something had to be done ā€ždifferentlyā€œ with uncontrolled results. I’d know that it’s my problem if I had such an experience with several other recordings, but I don’t.

And today I heard Sting Soul Cages…a recording so much brighter on top than the old Mervine mix, that I wonder how all those kinds of recordings sound on setups where the old Mervine is too bright. I’m puzzled.

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If the original Mervine was too bright, virtually everything I listen to is too bright

FALSE

Makes me concerned about FR30 as decision makers in recording/mixing.

Meanwhile I consider the top end EQ more or less a matter of taste, but the coloration below compared to the previous mix makes me wonder most, as well as the placements in the mix which don’t have a noticeable positive or purpose enlightning effect, too, to my ears. Enough, it’s odd,so be it.

I don’t understand how removing the EQ added to the original explains moving instruments from center to side or side to center as readily heard when comparing the original and the remaster.

The two things are not related. The EQ choice is one thing, the choice of positioning in the mix another thing, they are done separately (ignoring that there may be some tonality effects which have an influence to spacial perception, but not to that extent).

Someone who likes a lot of Octaveā€˜s music could compare other remixes if there are some already.

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I knew they are unrelated

As noted earlier, I was told that the only change was dropping top end EQ

Ok, sorry, then I understand your problem. Must have been a misunderstanding or misinformation.

In this case it can’t be. There’s too much positioning different and I recall it was remixed, not just remastered.

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Facts TBD

Re mixing, Paul often says DSD cannot be mixed or remixed, see recent video below. Can’t change volume or much of anything he says. Have to convert to DXD, which is PCM. Octave’s DSD downloads are supposed to be DSD, not conversions from DSD recording to DXD. Note: toward end of this video, Paul said that when Octave does a mix, DSD is converted to DXD/PCM and then back to DSD…thus DSD to PCM back to DSD.

Decisions would have to be made at recording, ie mic choices, record levels, etc in a non-conversion DSD workflow.

Perhaps in DXD/PCM mode, tinkering can be done where instruments present themselves: left, center, or right

https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/ask-paul/dsd-and-dxd-processing

Yes Paul makes the new mixes (several posts above, Paul speaks of a new mix regarding the Mervine, but sometimes also about a new remaster) on the Pyramix over PCM and back to DSD. So he could take his original DSD files and now remix (and remaster if we want to separate here) them on the Pyramix (which I understood he did).

But I get where your doubt comes from, regarding concrete changes he so far just spoke,about EQ’ing.

But honestly, we hear that the stage was partly restructured.

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hate to demonstrate old-man-itis but I prefer the original and am disappointed by the ā€˜remaster’

original has wider stage, less squished to the center, and better SQ regarding instrument sounds (particularly bass and drums; trumpet better in the new ā€˜remaster’)

someday, somewhere there is a place for us (West Side Story)…I will have the opportunity to hear the FR30