I looking for a used Xp-22 without much success right now. Any opinions on the Xp-30 as an alternative? I like the fact that the Xp-30 uses balanced in its tape loop as opposed to the single ended with the Xp-22 but I’m concerned with its older design and the Toshiba transistors that are said to be discontinued. Are these different than the ones used in the 22? Should I be concerned about servicing in the future? My rack can accommodate a three box solution so that’s not a issue. Also, I read that Pass Labs announced an update on their top of the line pre and that makes me wonder if they might be updating their entire line soon. If so more Xp-22s might be available then. What say you?
2 Likes
Having an XP-22 which is current was important part of my decision. My feeling is the XP-30, while fine sounding is a bit long in tooth. Regarding Pass Labs service, many say none better. I have had no need for service. No regrets.
1 Like
These questions are best answered by Kent English at Pass Labs. The rest of us would just be guessing.
2 Likes
I have an XP-30, and no, it isn’t for sale. It has a gloriously open and extended sound that is addictive. The reliability is second to none and in audio, what exactly is “long in tooth”? If it sounds damn good today, it is still damn good.
I also use a T+A P3100 HV that is a far more architectural sound, very solid and defined. I would not say this newer unit is “modern” or less “long in tooth” so much as it is a different sonic pallet, no more and no less. I didn’t buy it because it was new, but because it was 100% different than the XP-30.
Sure, stuff is called “new” but in the end analog is simply the sound most enjoyed no matter when it was designed. This is why analog audio is so nice, too. It never is “long in tooth” like digital. OMG on digital stuff, UGH.
I’d go by the SOUND you enjoy and not to worry so much about the vintage of the units. If each are in your price range, audition them and go for it.
Best,
Galen
2 Likes
Well more than 10 years old, and since been replaced by a more current design. The XP-32 improves on the XP-30 considerably as does the XP-22 on the XP-20. When I moved up the ladder from the XP-12 to the XP-22 I found the improvement beyond my expectations. Mostly attributable to a lower noise floor. The improved sense of space was not subtle.
BTW, long in tooth is an expression implying it is old, past its prime. I’ll add I do think the XP-20 and XP-30 for that matter are well past their prime, as is the PS Audio BHK preamp, BHK-250 and BHK-300 amplifiers.
I own more than one PS Audio DSD Mk I DAC, purchased when current, but now consider them long in tooth as well. That does not take away my enjoyment, but I’d hardly recommend either unless some one was on a tight budget and prefers what they bring to the table vice newer/current DAC(s).
1 Like
Analog in no way exhibits the same inaccuracy issues as digital. As far as noise floor goes the XP-30 noise floor measurements signal-to-noise ratio of 96.5dB (unweighted) and 109.1dB (A-weighted) for a 1V input signal. I don’t think you are hearing the “noise floor” at that level.
The implication something is “past it’s prime” isn’t accurate here. For a unit that can be bought for thousands less than the current, the XP-30 represents a much better value and will easily exceed anything “new” for the same purchase price. The build quality will well exceed a ten year (good grief, it better!) life. My old PS-IV preamap built to a price went twenty-five years before all the cheap switches crapped out.
I’m not singling out just the XP-30, but ANY stereo units out there of quality construction. Thinking analog equipment is somehow “long-in-tooth” isn’t applicable to premium quality equipment.
The differences in sound are cultural and to what people expect. It IS INDEED DISTORTION. The XP-30 is in no way as neutral as the P3100 HV as an example, but BOTH have an audience, neither is “long-in-tooth” for delivering that sonic expectation for the buyer. That presentation isn’t the noise floor changes, both units exhibit within a dB or so the same A-weighted noise floor. The DISTORTION trade-offs are taking a different path, and that decision isn’t long-in-tooth, but a cultural decision made by the manufacturere (Toshiba J-FETS or high voltage bias circuits).
We’re aren’t evaluating units that were never designed to be leading edge, but have cost limitiations on them for a better overall value and durability. I again stress LISTEN and buy the build quality, yes, and this insures the SOUND you enjoy stays put for a long, long time. Buying used in this market is an excellent way to get higher quality at the same price as “new” stuff, but likely not better at all, hardware.
Staying current on the “in” sound is a thing for sure, but how the heck do we sell SPEAKERS if we think the sound we hear is supposedly heading in the same direction? It clearly isn’t, and speakers market a sonic pallet as a choice and in no way is completely accurate, long-in-tooth or anything of the sort. If we really knew what accurate really was, we’d all buy the exact same thing(s) in exact same price segment, yes? That you enjoy the XP-22 proves my point. It is different, and you enjoy that. Be happy, it will never be long-in tooth.
Best,
Galen
1 Like
Thank you for your thoughtful response Galen. You make some convincing points about “long in the tooth” in the context of analog. My only concern is those discontinued Toshiba transistors. If servicing ever became an impossibility the XP-30 would make one heck of a boat anchor. But transistors are durable and it is unlikely it ever be an issue I suppose. I emailed Pass Labs through their website but as of yet I haven’t gotten a response. On the positive side it has proven difficult to find another preamp at this level of performance and quality with a balanced tape monitor feature for a similar price.
Galen, on this we disagree. The XP-32 or XP-22 brings to the forefront improvements on either model. Should one be financially constrained a used older model may suffice. Strictly a personal decision. Regarding the Toshiba J-FET semi conductors RONP had the right suggest, inquire at Pass Labs, Kent English should be of great assistance.
Glad you enjoy your XP-30 as much as I my XP-22.
Brevity is the soul of wit. Wm. Shakespaere
2 Likes
Looks like the price for a new XP-22 is now $10972. I don’t know if that is due to tariffs or not but that isn’t in my budget. I’m sure that’s a fair price considering the performance but save for a used one popping up at a considerable discount a used XP-30 at about half that sure looks attractive. Not a necessity, so I’m in no hurry to make a move, but it’s always something in the back of my mind.
2 Likes
Depending on the rest of your system, you might not hear, no matter how critically you listen, the differences between an XP-30 and an XP-32.
I would not hesitate to buy a used, well cared for XP-30.
1 Like
Called Pass Labs and Mr. English answered the phone so didn’t even have to ask for him. Seems the Toshiba transistors are reliable and rarely are a issue. He added that it is very difficult to hear any sonic difference between the XP-30 and XP-22. He offered to look up the service history of the unit I was interested in if I could provide the serial #. So, went back to the website and the unit was no longer listed! It was still listed this morning. Just not in the cards for me. Oh well, saved me a lot of money.
3 Likes
Improvements are what you like, not what is made or measured. We listen to this stuff. If we didn’t, we could past spec sheets and pictures on the fridge. That’s the problem with analog, there is no way to have an “agreement” as to what is better. The differences…maybe. LISTEN to the units and yes, the prices are also a “measure” of the value constraint. Some will say a unit is better for the same reason someone else will say it isn’t. They are both right.
Pass has a good supply of the JFETS (they bought the supply up per Kent) but they are incredibly reliable. I wouldn’t be worried about the JFETS and, do you even know the supply chain of ALL the components in anything we own and when they are EOL? Nope, didn’t think so.
In humor, if the XP-22 was made BEFORE the XP-30, which one is “better”? There you go, you have to LISTEN to decide what’s best for you.
Best,
Galen
Odd indeed