Black box can be good but it is difficault to ger the right possible performance out of it. That makes some disappointed with its performance.
A group of people in Sweden discussed both products in depth, including resellers of both… the general idea was that PSI had greater performance, better result, more capacity, solved all frequencies within a span (Black box is more limited).
The discussion was regarding the older model, PSI AVAA 20 and not the newer even more easy to integrate C214.
My take, if you have to optimize performance, all solutions will look like crap. But if you buy 2 PSI and put them behind curtains (instead of at the most boomy spots) you might get quite good performance with PSI.
My own experience is with dense bass traps from Accustica Applicata and Sound of Science. They help. Accustica Applicata DAADs are great but can not separate direct base from problems with room nodes. They work like an absorber.
I’m curious how these solutions compare to DSP options? I went down a couple of rabbit holes, tried setup changes within my limits, and opt’t for a miniDSP SHD to tame room nodes.
Other than having another piece of digital gear in the signal chain that is somewhat constraining, I’m happy with what it does, the relative cost, and the huge aesthetic difference in what it would have taken to address stuff below 100.
One of the reasons I am interested in both the AVAA C214 and the SR Black Box is the smallish footprint / dimensions. I am a big fan of the ASC Isothermal Tube Traps I am currently using in my current listening space. I miss the ASC traps greatly when I have removed them from the room. Removing excess bass waves cleans up everything else. I utilize them primarily for Bass issues and not for their ability to either diffuse or absorb mid and high range waves. Accordingly, I would be elated f I could get the same bass treatment from either the AVAA C214 or the SR Black Boxes or a combination thereof without the need for filling the room with Tube Traps.
On a side note I am selling my condo/listening space and the staging agent swung by today. I knew there was no way the agent would allow me to keep these beasts around for future showings. The ASC traps are hard for anybody to stomach architecturally in any multipurpose room. I am hoping size doesn’t matter when it comes to using either the AVAA or SR products. The 6 traps shown here currently retail for a total of around $4600. The AVAA is a relative screaming value of it can replace the need to place the tube traps in a room.
Not sure what to expect in my 15’ front-to-back 11.5’ side-to-side and 18’ ceiling room. From what I’ve read, studios that use AVAA C214 typically have more than 1. But, I’m not going for the stillness of a studio.
When I described my room to the SR Dealer he felt I may need more than one Black Box.
I’ve been checking for LF Modals in my room, no surprise, the four corners and center between the speakers have the most bloom. I don’t expect one box of either type to cure my room, but if one shows nice gains I may be tempted to add another one.
It will be interesting to see if the AVAA C214 compliments the Black Box and dampens the room enough for my likings.
Don’t have any tracking information yet on either package, but both have hit my CC; I believe both dealers are having them shipped manufacturer direct.
As for the Black Box, I don’t think it can be a real alternative to bass traps, I consider it more of a tuning tool for environments that have already been treated. Based on my experience with just one BB in a small, acoustically well managed room.
“High efficiency: As effective as a perfect passive absorber up to 45 x its size”
“Up to” might be misleading.
Like Mr Fats, I’m using ASC isothermic tube traps (among other treatments…several built in-house per standard best practices) in my main listening room.
As my friend pointed out, the details from TAS only show a ~2dB difference for a few frequencies in the graphs. He astutely said that it would be great to see a direct comparison to other common solutions.
I’m still intrigued by these few new products, but need more data and direct experience to really believe in them.
No. That picture was my assembly before they left the room. I had an asymmetrical room set up where I had two seven foot stacks in the corners closest to the listening position ( the left front and left rear corner) and two three footers in nodes on the left side of the wall. The right side wall was far enough away that I was better using them on the left side. I just.rotated the speakers so now the left wall is the front wall…more symmetrical and ironically the tube traps did not move. Bass nodes are bass nodes and are many times defined by the room boundaries. The real estate agent told me to get rid of everything except the rack and use “normal” looking speakers so people are not distracted by the MBL amps and speakers.
My room does have (32) Aurlex LENRD 1x1x2 foot Studiofoam Bass Traps; 8 feet high in each corner with several on the floor along the walls and under a desk (Climbing 18’ to mount foam bass traps on the ceiling is not my cup of tea). I plan on leaving them in place initially when I add the AVAA C214 and Black Box.
After I have a baseline I will try moving the Studiofoam Bass Traps to see if they can provide any fine tuning.
That’s so key to bass. The “bigger” the corner, the more critical it will be to the listening experience. None of these devices are going to magically remove the importance of corners, first reflection points, etc. Believing that is the equivalent of bringing a slingshot to a big in the bass bazooka fight. I still believe room is the second most important thing after speakers. Prove me wrong!
To my previous post, ~2dB frequency differences shown in The Absolute Sound’s graphs is absolutely NOT something most will even hear, per my genius room guy that’s among my dearest friends and not trying to sell me on anything.
It may or may not be heard, depending on the frequency and what that 2dB reduction is relative to the amplitude of the peak, but in general I agree with your entire post.
It would (or at least should) be fun to see if we could tell the differences. After all, this IS a hobby of precision and of course the joy that follows such precision.
Right out of the box there is a perceptible difference in clarity, coherence and soundstage; LF absorption not so much. Don’t know if these require a break-in period.
One thing I noticed before the Black Box was my room does ok with Electric and double bass, it’s synthesizers/organs/ultra-bass drums that make my room go bonkers when they play down below 35Hz. The resonant frequency for my ceiling height is right around 30Hz - and it does seem the Black Box makes it more clear that my room is going bonkers whereas without the BB it seems my speakers and the room are acting together which really throws off the PRAT factor.
