Sonore Rendu with PS Audio PWD MKII via i2s

Hi Jesus,

Based on the flow chart on your web site, Rendu is what I want… I have NAS on wired network with Twonkey to feed PWD via wire ethernet, and I’d like to use an ios device to control it…

Would LMS on computer Ethernet to Rendu i2s to PW DAC MKII and controlled by ipeng…



play music files AND Logitech services such as pandora, rhapsody and such?



This topic gets confusing for me!

Hi Jesus,
Based on the flow chart on your web site, Rendu is what I want.. I have NAS on wired network with Twonkey to feed PWD via wire ethernet, and I'd like to use an ios device to control it...


You can do this, but there is currently no iOS controller for gapless playback with that specific setup.

Jesus R
Would LMS on computer Ethernet to Rendu i2s to PW DAC MKII and controlled be ipeng........

play music files AND Logitech services such as pandora, rhapsody and such?


LMS and iPeng would work with the Sonore Sonic Orbiter. I can then make you an external USB to i2s converter with a linear power supply in a matching case if that helps. If not, just use the Sonic Orbiter's USB output into the PWD.

Jesus R
mr_bill said: This topic gets confusing for me!


It does. It gets confusing trying to determine what one needs and what the options are.
mr_bill said: This topic gets confusing for me!


It does. It gets confusing trying to determine what one needs and what the options are.


Elk, go to our website and look at each product one at a time and don't cross contaminate the features of one product with the other. They are different and what applies to one does not apply to the other.

http://www.sonore.us/index7.html
http://www.sonore.us/index8.html

I'm not confused so ask questions as needed!

Jesus R

I think what confuses many of us is understanding everything which is needed, what capabilities are available, what software to use, etc.



We need a server (a computer, or a NAS) and then a player. We also need a controller to tell the server what to send to the player.



Unfortunately, each server and player has different capabilities. For example, some players can control a USB drive (making a server not necessary), others cannot. Various server software and player software is not necessarily compatible, what controllers work with what, etc.



It can be a bit of a steep learning curve.


Sounds like we need the silent server.

closest thingie so far is a mini which can run Mac or Windows.

If the Rendu had an os and player it would be a winner in my books.

Elk, you obviously did not go into the Rendu’s product page.



I think what confuses many of us is understanding everything which is needed, what capabilities are available, what software to use, etc.


It sounds like you are confused. You need a “server”, a “controller”, and a “player”. The recommended “servers” and “controllers” are right in the product page. The Rendu is the player.



RECOMMENDED CONTROLLERS and SERVERS

Mobile device controllers:

Plug Player, eLyric Songbird, Bubble UPNP

PCM servers:

MinimServer, Vortexbox Mini DLNA, Logitech Media Server (LMS) and eLyric Music Manager (EMM), Twonky, Assest, Syonology Media Server

PCM and DSD/DoP servers:

MinimServer on PC/Mac, J-River on PC/Mac and Foobar2000 on PC with SACD plug-in



We need a server (a computer, or a NAS) and then a player. We also need a controller to tell the server what to send to the player.


It sounds like you are no longer confused:)



Unfortunately, each server and player has different capabilities. For example, some players can control a USB drive (making a server not necessary), others cannot. Various server software and player software is not necessarily compatible, what controllers work with what, etc.


It sounds like you are confused again. A "server and a “controller” can’t have the same capabilities because they are two different things. Talking about a player controlling a USB drive in this post is not relevant. Please refer above to the “Recommended Controller and Servers”.



It can be a bit of a steep learning curve.


I could accept this from a new member, but your a “Community Leader, Beta Tester” with 2,472 posts…



Jesus R

Sounds like we need the silent server.

The Sonic Orbiter might fit the description: http://www.sonore.us/index8.html

closest thingie so far is a mini which can run Mac or Windows

This is not electrically silent or acoustically silent. It has a fan and a spinning drive. It's also powered by an onboard SMPS. It also needs a mouse, keyboard, monitor, ETC. It's cute though:)

If the Rendu had an os and player it would be a winner in my books.

The point of the Rendu is that it's not a computer running an OS intended for universal applications! It is however a player. The audio data is streamed to it and it plays it.

Jesus R
Sounds like we need the silent server.
closest thingie so far is a mini which can run Mac or Windows.
If the Rendu had an os and player it would be a winner in my books.


Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you as well there G. The Sonore Orbiter and W4S servers are much closer to the "silent server" concept than a Mac mini. The Rendu is more of a bridge alternative I think. There really isn't any outstanding issue with either server currently that would prevent it being used in the manner of a "silent server".

My comparisons also suggest the Linux based vortexbox system sounds much better than a Mac mini as well.

@elk when delving into computer based audio that steep learning curve can be the fun part as well. Trying different combinations of software/hardware/firmware, it all adds to the hobby.

vortecjr said: I could accept this from a new member, but your a "Community Leader, Beta Tester" with 2,472 posts....

:)

vortecjr said: A "server and a "controller" can't have the same capabilities because they are two different things.

Yes. My statement was unclear. I meant to indicate that various servers (both the hardware component and the software) have different capabilities. For example, a NAS running LMS is different from a NAS running MinimServer, which is different from a C.A.P.S. machine running Windows. The various controllers have different abilities as well.

Then there are hybrid products such as the Bryston BDP-1 and the Wyred 4 Sound "servers." These combine various aspects of server, player and controller in various degrees. (And the neat fact you can add your I2S output to the Bryston.) :)

vortecjr said: RECOMMENDED CONTROLLERS and SERVERS
Mobile device controllers:
Plug Player, eLyric Songbird, Bubble UPNP
PCM servers:
MinimServer, Vortexbox Mini DLNA, Logitech Media Server (LMS) and eLyric Music Manager (EMM), Twonky, Assest, Syonology Media Server

Do you have or are you aware of a listing of the advantages and disadvantages of each? For example, I understand some are capable of gapless and some are not.
As a separate question, are all the controllers compatible with each server?



stereophilus said: When delving into computer based audio that steep learning curve can be the fun part as well.

This makes good sense, and I like and get along with computers. I am finding the initial shopping/decision making process a bit frustrating however. There are many options and it appears each has its quirks, limitations and set up issues.

Am I the only member that thinks it odd that to get the Bridge to live up to what we were all told to expect costs an additional $1500.00 for a piece of equipment from another manufacturer? It sounds as though the Rendu is a marvelous replacement/bypass for the Bridge, but why is it incumbent upon PWD Bridge owners to pay for a cure for what we already bought in good faith?



I have been in repeated communication with Clint at W4S and have decided to buy the MS3TB. Using the W4S MS obviates the need for the computer to be running to play digital music, it is now completely compatible with NativeX via I2S, and is rock solid reliable. Selling the Bridge will offset a small part of the expense.



Wouldn’t it be far better for PS Audio to fix this thing? How many of us knew when we bought the PWD/Bridge that we would have wade through thousands of posts from dedicated volunteers to find fixes and work-arounds?



Christopher

My statement was unclear. I meant to indicate that various servers (both the hardware component and the software) have different capabilities. For example, a NAS running LMS is different from a NAS running MinimServer, which is different from a C.A.P.S. machine running Windows. The various controllers have different abilities as well.

You have to research these applications and try things out. I can answer specific questions to help out, but at the end of the day the server just needs to push the content to the player.

Do you have or are you aware of a listing of the advantages and disadvantages of each? For example, I understand some are capable of gapless and some are not.

The best thing is to load one or two servers and try them out side by side. I have 5 UPNP servers running here at the same time and switching between them is two clicks way. That is the point of UPNP in that I'm not limited to one server. If I want to serve up my NAS to the Rendu...click click I'm done, If I want to serve up my Mac to the Rendu...click click I'm done. The prescription for gapless with the Rendu is listed on my website.

As a separate question, are all the controllers compatible with each server?

If I list them on my website it's because the work together.

Jesus R
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you as well there G. The Sonore Orbiter and W4S servers are much closer to the "silent server" concept than a Mac mini. The Rendu is more of a bridge alternative I think. There really isn't any outstanding issue with either server currently that would prevent it being used in the manner of a "silent server".

The Sonore Rendu is similar to the Bridge, but external. The Sonore Sonic Orbiter is a type of "silent" server.

Jesus R

@birddogthecat Umm, well it isn’t something we can just “fix”. If you’ll remember the Bridge was never designed to have the resources necessary for gapless. It is just something we never considered when we designed it and had our goals set on streaming the best sounding music we knew how to do. So it isn’t as if there’s something wrong with the bridge, it just was never designed to handle gapless in the first place, thus we can’t “fix” a problem the Bridge doesn’t have.



To get the Bridge to natively do gapless takes a whole different processor and memory allocation and a whole different player - basically a whole different device. The Bridge is a great sounding piece and does what we originally intended it to do quite well. The gapless issue is something we intend to solve with WaveStream which utilizes the available resources of the Bridge, keeps its sound quality intact, and adds the ability to play gapless. We will give WaveStream to Bridge owners for free.

@admin I must admit when the Bridge does work (gapless is not a major issue with me), the sound is magnificent - truly. I have written this before - amazing sound quality.



The issue for me is reliability: Will there be music (non-stuttering 24/192) when I stream? That is all. I am one of the lucky ones. My PWD2/Bridge & PWT work perfectly now (including screen art) and have been for the past 2.5-3 weeks. It was quite an odyssey to get there.



To achieve this, at the end of the night’s listening, I turn off the PWD2 using the blue square. Then I turn off power supply using the back rocker switch. In the morning, I reverse those procedures. Since I began taking those steps, I have 100% reliability and magnificent sound. I do have to reset volume to 100% & Sample Rate to NativeX - a minor inconvenience for which I use the PW DAC Controller from my desktop. Christopher



By the way: You have superlative factory customer support.

Jesus, thank you for your explanations and additional information. I am on the right track but it appears I just need to research specific options. You clearly have some great products.



vortecjr said: If I list them on my website it’s because the work together.


Perfect! This makes good sense, but I did not want to assume.



birddogthecat said: Using the W4S MS obviates the need for the computer to be running to play digital music, it is now completely compatible with NativeX via I2S, and is rock solid reliable.


This has its appeal. I have one of the early Olive server/players. It works quite well, but one is bound by its quirks and limitations as it is a closed system.



I like the idea of moving to a more open hardware setup which can be modified and updated as desired. A computer based system is the most flexible, with a NAS coming in second. On the other hand, turnkey has its obvious advantages.



An historical question relating to streaming playback in general, not just to the Bridge: when did the issue of gapless playback arise as an issue? I started using portable digital playback devices years ago, long before the iPod came out and before iTunes. I do not recall any discussion of gapless anywhere until relatively recently.