I’m pretty much in agreement with Elk, prices can be expected to fall on any electronics item in this fast evolving sector. I’ve seen it happen to essentially all of PS Audio’s products, in recent memory the PowerBase started at $995, though there was an early adopter price of $795 (I got one). Since then it wasn’t hard to find someone selling a new one for $795 (or less) on Audiogon, but rarely did used ones sell below $700. Now Music Direct is selling them for $500 for a limited time (might be time for a second one). Same for the NuWave Phono Converter, it started at $1995, but the early adopters (myself included) got no discount, we got a personally auditioned unit so we knew it sounded as PS Audio intended. Soon after they were selling for several hundred dollars less (can’t recall exact number) plus you got $200 in credit for Mobile Fidelity records. That hurt. Now with the DS there was a slightly different early adopter tact, owners of the PWD got a kit to upgrade for half price, or you could trade in your PWD for a $2K discount, not bad. The kits are still available, but now the trade-in is $1.5K for any DAC, an even better deal if you an inexpensive DAC lying around (I do!). All this has certainly reduced the value of the PWD and flooded the market, but you can still get a decent price for it (if you didn’t trade it in). As for the price of used DS, yes it has dropped, but I have yet to see one below $3500 on Audiogon. Still over 50% of full retail, so the impact is not quite so bad. It’s hard accepting we lost money but almost nothing bought new in audio and resold as used makes money. It’s the downside to this hobby. Now, what I’m really waiting for is the new amp to drop to half price! Of course it has to be released first…
No matter what Elk say.
The DS is my last investment in PSaudio gear.
It is the worst gear to upgrade to a higher level of Audio at reasonable costs!
The PWD with bridge was still not stable at all (don’t questionmark the app).
Now the DS with bridge is in the same state and a new bridge is still not ready (if???).
Very frustrating
+1
I have some mixed feelings about this. PS audio is probably the only or one of the few manufacturers that makes it possible to buy a kit instead of a new unit. So in this case we have the opportunity to get a great dac for a good price.
On the other hand we loose a lot of money as soon as we want to sell our unit. For my feelings a DS is less special when it’s an easy buy, no matter what it is capable of.
This sort if things happened to me with brands like Marantz and Denon. Now I won’t buy this kind of hardware in the premium class anymore.
Let’s hope something like this is not going to happen in Europe.
I would think a good portion of the PS Audio business plan anticipates existing customer base to upgrade and/or purchase additional PS Audio product lines. While this rapid change in market price does not affect the quality, it does affect the perceived value. Such experience will not be easily forgotten and could impact other to be released products and “early adopter” purchases in the future. As widely discussed as PS Audio products are on forums, this will also become known to those not owning PS Audio equipment and have the potential to become first time buyers. The message becomes WAIT. I suggest some meaningful Loyalty program be considered that rewards early purchasers done at retail price, especially from the factory.
erikm saidI can sell my year old iPhone 5s for more than I paid for it… So not all tech takes a massive dive…
It is always fun to see the exceptions. Another that comes to mind was the first Benchmark DAC. Used they sold at perhaps a 5% discount for a long, long time while other products dropped in value as usual.
Shiloh the Golden Retreiver saidPutting aside for the moment whether or not Elk’s PSA association is a conflict of interest (I do not care one way or the other) . . .
No conflict of interest here, just one of the ruminating herd like the rest of you. I wish I received a royalty check for each DS sold at full price. Or even at half price.
adimon said No matter what Elk say.The DS is my last investment in PSaudio gear.
Don’t base your audio buying decisions on what I or anyone else says. Make up your own mind and act accordingly.
For those upset by the current promotion, do you experience this same level of angst when a car you just bought offered with incentives a few months later, a computer is rapidly discounted or now sold with packaged goodies, Groupon later offers 50% off on the meal you just ate out?
I am fascinated by the sense of entitlement so many have expressed.
Keep in mind one can easily avoid this perceived problem by simply buying your equipment used. You can assemble an equally good or better system at less cost, and which will then hold its value for a good while.
It is also worth remembering that many of us early adopters bought the DS without hearing one and before there were any influential reviews. If the DS was a flop, the top reviewers all panned the product, end users all stated it stinks - we would not be able to give away a DS. But by buying the DS we all took this risk. We had no idea how it would pan out.
Get real guys!
PS Audio is the one offering the big discount purposely - thus it is their brand and subsequent product value they are working with and if that is the reputation they want, then that is the rep they will get, i.e. a heavily discounted brand, one that does not hold value, one that comes with a lot of hyperbole at first to drive sales and then whoosh, a huge discount. I cry foul. I am the customer and thus I have to make up my mind if I want to purchase their products again based on the experience. I would think that Paul would like to hear these comments and the voice of the customer. I don’t know about you, but a couple of thousand $ to my pocket are a big deal and I don’t buy the early adopter computer comparisons.
Don’t get me wrong - the DS is a marvelous machine, it’s the pricing strategies that are annoying.
Wasn’t everyone all upset with the Texas dealer a couple of weeks ago with the big discounts? What’s the diff?
Btw, Underwood Walter is a GREAT dealer, really like him and would do business with him any day of the week, but he doesn’t make up the promotions.
Elk said
For those upset by the current promotion, do you experience this same level of angst when a car you just bought offered with incentives a few months later, a computer is rapidly discounted or now sold with packaged goodies, Groupon later offers 50% off on the meal you just ate out?
Keep in mind one can easily avoid this perceived problem by simply buying your equipment used. You can assemble an equally good or better system at less cost, and which will then hold its value for a good while.
It is also worth remembering that many of us early adopters bought the DS without hearing one and before there were any influential reviews. If the DS was a flop, the top reviewers all panned the product, end users all stated it stinks - we would not be able to give away a DS. But by buying the DS we all took this risk. We had no idea how it would pan out.
Well yes with a car or anything else except a computer or any other thing that would be old by a month of age I would be upset.
I bought a kit so a part of my unit is used.
Can we really trust what reviewers say or is it just marketing? I bought the unit because of what I read on the forum, not what they say in the magazines.
By the way, not so hard feelings, but I could not resist to reply
wijnand saidBuy the way, not so hard feelings, but I could not resist to reply
No hard feelings at all. It is a good discussion. We all have different ways of looking at things. I am glad you are expressing your opinion.
Mr_Bill said . . . a heavily discounted brand, one that does not hold value, one that comes with a lot of hyperbole at first to drive sales and then whoosh, a huge discount.PS Audio has, for many years, offered many promotions on its products including substantial trade-in incentives. Have you, thus, held a negative impression of the company for these many years? If not, why not? If so, why did you buy the DS anyway?
No problem with promotions but $2k off just went a little too far for me. I could live with less, but just saying.
I don’t know if I have seen this big a cut off of other PS products. I think the DS is a great machine and maybe the original price was too high. 33% off the top is a bit high for a promo if you want to hold the real value up.
So should the upgrade kit now be $2k - 33% off?
further said I would think a good portion of the PS Audio business plan anticipates existing customer base to upgrade and/or purchase additional PS Audio product lines. While this rapid change in market price does not affect the quality, it does affect the perceived value. Such experience will not be easily forgotten and could impact other to be released products and "early adopter" purchases in the future. As widely discussed as PS Audio products are on forums, this will also become known to those not owning PS Audio equipment and have the potential to become first time buyers. The message becomes WAIT. I suggest some meaningful Loyalty program be considered that rewards early purchasers done at retail price, especially from the factory.Chrysler recently did an interesting loyalty program/promo to spur Viper sales. Sales had slowed as a result of the $15k price increase over the prior generation model, with the price increasing from $86k to $101k. Chrysler reduced the price of the Viper by $15k, and then offered all of the owners that purchased Vipers at the higher price a $15k coupon so that they could either buy an additional Viper or trade in their slightly used Viper for a new one at the lower price. Seems like a great idea that didn't penalize early Viper purchasers and enhanced brand loyalty.
Giving a 25% discount on a relatively new product where the reviews just started to be printed (which one by one are awesome) makes Joe Blow the consumer think that PS Audio is over priced to begin with.
The loyal customers of PS Audio who buy when something new comes out are the ones left in the cold ‘over paying’ by 25% for a new unit.
To comment about the used resale value being half of does not apply to brands that hold value (and therefore HAVE value…).
Bryston is a pretty good example. The BDA-1 which is now sold for $1,495, is still being sold used for $1,000 - $1,150 and the BHA-1 which sells for $1395 is used still sold for $1,000 - $1,150. That proves that it still is possible to have a brand that hold value like a Honda.
PS Audio unfortunately feels like the discount store. Price the items up to mark them down. Same thing happened with the new DACs.
Too bad though, because PS Audio makes great products for the ‘original’ asking price! Pricing them down so fast and so much takes away from the trust that people have in the brand. Most will wonder:’ If your DAC is so amazing, why is it being discounted with 25% within months of release?’
Just my $0,02…
karmanfamily said Giving a 25% discount on a relatively new product where the reviews just started to be printed (which one by one are awesome) makes Joe Blow the consumer think that PS Audio is over priced to begin with.Or he thinks, "Damn, what a great deal right now. I better jump on this before the trade-in promotion ends."
I suspect the discontent is grounded in simple self-interest (“Nuts, I could have purchased this great DAC for less if I waited.”) then arising out of a philosophical concern brand perception.
But this is my evil twin Ricky speaking . . .
Indeed it is a great deal right now and it probably will sell very good. It seems just not fair to the customers that bought it because they love PS audio equipment and even want the products when they have to go deep in financial perspective. Now the value is taken away from them.
PS Audio appears to be a very fair company. I assume anyone who purchased a unit at full price, up to a reasonable period ago, would receive the discount. As an example, I purchased an Emotiva product over the summer which went on sale a week later. After contacting the company they cheerfully refunded the difference.
By doing this on top of the reviews, i suspect PS wants market share of the small market at these kinds of prices.
Gets the name out there, continues the buzz, and sells more units.
Sorry, early adopters, but you’re the ones that couldn’t wait to see how things shook out like many of us did.
That was entirely your choice.
I suppose it’s time to chime in. DirectStream’s been doing very well in the marketplace and we are very happy and thankful for the support. Over time, with any product, momentum slows down. In some cases, that slow down is due to seasonality, in other cases because the market gets saturated, and in yet others because a segment of the potential buyers wait patiently for some type of break in the price so they too can participate. You see it in all products and in every marketplace. Such is the timing with DirectStream.
When demand slows enough for our backlog of production to catch up with demand, something that has only just recently happened, we are happy to be in a position to buy back people’s older DACS, thus making it easier for them to get into a DirectStream, or Power Plant, or whatever the product is.
In this case we are offering $1,500 to buy back people’s existing DAC if they want to send it in to us towards the purchase of a new DirectStream.
That some dealers have to always offer an even better deal is always a surprise to me but, as you probably know, we cannot control pricing of dealers.
Sales come and sales go. We certainly have no intention of lowering the price on DirectStream for anything other than the temporary trade up offer to help people get into a new DirectStream. It is really nothing more sinister than that. Fact is, the pricing of DirectStream, as with any of our products, is a direct reflection of the cost to produce and develop the unit. That hasn’t changed.
audiobill said Sorry, early adopters, but you're the ones that couldn't wait to see how things shook out like many of us did.That was entirely your choice.
Yes. But we got to enjoy the DS that much longer.
Paul McGowan said Over time, with any product, momentum slows down. In some cases, that slow down is due to seasonality . . .Curiosity: Is there a predictable seasonal variation in audio sales?
By all means although the weather patterns seem to be shifting ever so subtly.
Summers, starting about May and running into September are traditionally the slower periods for audio sales. Combine the facts that much of Europe takes off for vacation, the other parts of the world doing somewhat the same, the propensity to enjoy the outdoors more than indoor sports (like listening to music on a dedicated system) and, unless you’re in Australia, summer and into the fall really do slow audio sales down.