This makes perfect sense, once you explain it. 
Wow. Great conversation and one I easily see myself on both sides.
I am an early adopter of the DS. I got a kit to upgrade my MKII, which was upgraded from a MKI. So I’ve had years of enjoyment from my initial purchase and the value for me, both in performance and over all cost, I feel has been exceptional.
When I see the deals being offered now do I cringe? Yes. Because my purchasing decision between new unit vs upgrade may have been different. Paul has always offered great trade in options for his products. So did I know it was coming? Yes. Did I think it would come this fast? No. Do they seem to be coming faster in a product life cycle. Yes. I have #13 of the NPC, and when the $200 MOFI incentive came out it was a head slap moment. These moments are certainly frustrating. But I ask myself, are these units still worth the value “in my system” as to when I decided to purchase them? The answer to both is yes.
Now, my thoughts on the early incentives on the DS are this…I have never seen so much positive press being generated for any PS Audio product. From a marketing stand point I see this as perfect opportunity for PSA to bring in more customers NOW. More people to experience their products and their quality. More people, more word of mouth and possibly more sales. More people looking at other offerings. More people ready for the next future upgrade. I’m sure a lot of PS Audio sales come from their existing customer base. Now’s the time to build on that. Why wait a year when someone else’s product is all over the press and you’re now trying to sell to press that’s 6 months to a year old. As my 10 year old daughter would say “That’s so yesterday!”
My last thought on this. Being an early adopter always sucks from a financial/resale perspective. It can be very frustrating. But damn I’ve enjoyed the DS in my system the last few months…and how do you put price on that?
T
An excellent summary of the issue.
I recall as much positive press with the P300. This truly was a new type of product and fascinated audiophiles, with all of the typical to the hobby over-the-top fanboys and it-is-impossible deniers.
The Digital Lens also made a splash.
Is the trade in for a MKII $1500 or $2000? If $2000, how much longer?
Mike
It is $1,500, includes free shipping (both ways if you decide it doesn’t suit your needs) and runs through the end of this month. That is, if you buy directly from us.
Now let me look at it from a brand standpoint, instead of the one of consumer.
If I were PS Audio:
You have 3 lines in your product line up with sub categories within the lines:
Power products (P3, P5, P10, PowerBase and Dectet)
Audio products (DSD, PWD MK II, PMP, NPC and NWD)
Accessories (DS kit, PW bridge, Power Port, AC cables and HDMI)
I would not touch the power products, just renew the focus on them. Do a small update (add a menu item…) and re-launch the bunch. Send them out to the reviewers. (I know, very simplistic, but I think effective). Put them out there as a solid, long term investment in your gear. No discounts, not needed, because your power products are a long term investment. Not a lot of people change their power conditioners (regenerators) as often as DACs, CD players and cables. They do upgrade them as their need for more power grows with their new gear. Keep prices stable and have strict dealer rules on pricing (see Sony, MIT and Wireworld). This keeps this line stable in its price and resale value, which makes an upgrade to a more expensive item more attractive. You ‘lose’ the regular 40-50% instead of 60+%.
We can all agree that besides the power gear, PS Audio is famous for its DACs. Now with the DSD you have a top of the line product followed by the PWD MK II and then the NWD. The jumps in price are big, but fair. Let’s bring back the PWD MK I, to fill the gap. (I don’t know production cost, so don’t know if economically viable). Keep the DSD on $5,995, put the MK II on $2,995, the MK I on $1,995 and the NWD on $995 (or $895, everyone is used to the $695 already…). Smaller gaps with a reasonably prices entry model. Smaller gaps makes the upgrade easier. To jump from $1k to $2k is easier to justify than from $1k to $3k… Again, make strict dealer rules on pricing to keep the resale value up and to make an upgrade less expensive.
The NPC is a star on its own that doesn’t need any sales gimmicks…
Blow the dust off the power cables, refresh the look, add a cool named ingredient (read: improve them a little) and throw them out there again, but this time with more aggressive attack on the fake chinese cables that are out there a lot. This hurts PS Audio a lot. Also, strict pricing policies.
I forgot the article, but I have read an article about economy and the products people buy. When the economy is good and people have money to spend, they buy ‘discount products’, the price is good and if it isn’t good, doesn’t matter, I will buy another one (there is money to spend). When the economy is slow, people think about what they buy and will shop around. A large majority will buy a more expensive product (expensive means better quality, they think) and they look at resale value. The aggressive pricing approach works in a good economy, in a ‘bad’ economy the long term value approach works better.
I know that this takes time and $, but in the long run I think it will pay off to set up the brand this way.
Please, read this as theory from a single person that looks in from the outside and not as gospel or ‘you have to do this, or else’…
Mr_Bill said No problem with promotions but $2k off just went a little too far for me. I could live with less, but just saying.I don’t know if I have seen this big a cut off of other PS products. I think the DS is a great machine and maybe the original price was too high. 33% off the top is a bit high for a promo if you want to hold the real value up.
+1
It’s so lucky to be in N.America to enjoy such heavy discount.
Unfortunately not for int’l consumers. I had MKI for years then upgrade to MKII now DS @June, total adds up to almost AUD8K.
Mid Sep the brand new DS on promotion in US for U$4495 trade in while the DS kit cost A$3300 here, that doesn’t make sense to me for my not even three months early adaption. And to be frank I agree with others that I will be seriously more considerable for next PS purchase if so.
Just my 2c…
karmanfamily said Now let me look at it from a brand standpoint, instead of the one of consumer.....I agree on much of this. I have been a PS Audio Customer since 2002. The first piece I bought was the Power Director 4.7. I still have it. I've bought many other pieces since.I would not touch the power products, just renew the focus on them. Do a small update (add a menu item…) and re-launch the bunch. Send them out to the reviewers. (I know, very simplistic, but I think effective). Put them out there as a solid, long term investment in your gear. No discounts, not needed, because your power products are a long term investment. Not a lot of people change their power conditioners (regenerators) as often as DACs, CD players and cables.
Blow the dust off the power cables, refresh the look, add a cool named ingredient (read: improve them a little) and throw them out there again, but this time with more aggressive attack on the fake chinese cables that are out there a lot. This hurts PS Audio a lot. Also, strict pricing policies.
The fake Chinese cables are what they are: whether they are fakes or factory back-door jobs outside the normal distribution channels. It used to be a boiling issue and I know the PS Audio cavalry charged all the way to Hong Kong to get something done about it but it doesn’t crack much of a mention any more. I think it all became too hard for them. For their asking price they deserve an engraved serial number or RFID chip in the molded barrel. But ultimately I don’t care, I just buy mine from authorized dealers and keep the purchase invoice as evidence of providence when I eventually sell and upgrade to the next iteration.
...Unfortunately not for int'l consumers. I had MKI for years then upgrade to MKII now DS @June, total adds up to almost AUD8K.That looks like a pretty good deal to me. You've had a PS Audio DAC of some sort for all those years, ultimately ending up with a DS, and your total investment is not much more than the cost of a new DS (which in Australia is $6699 AUD RRP without Bridge, $7499 with Bridge). Credit to PS Audio for offering upgrade paths, and the Distributor keeping local prices closely pegged to US MSRP.
But yeah, I take the point manufacturer sponsored local special offers for International customers would be nice (but the reality is, the US market is infinitely larger than elsewhere).
I, too, would be very pleased if our brethren who happen not to be located in the States could enjoy the promotions we see here.
brodricj said...Unfortunately not for int'l consumers. I had MKI for years then upgrade to MKII now DS @June, total adds up to almost AUD8K.That looks like a pretty good deal to me. You’ve had a PS Audio DAC of some sort for all those years, ultimately ending up with a DS, and your total investment is not much more than the cost of a new DS (which in Australia is $6699 AUD RRP without Bridge, $7499 with Bridge). Credit to PS Audio for offering upgrade paths, and the Distributor keeping local prices closely pegged to US MSRP.
But yeah, I take the point manufacturer sponsored local special offers for International customers would be nice (but the reality is, the US market is infinitely larger than elsewhere).
If its from manufacturers point of view I understand, unfortunately I’m just an ordinary consumer.
And we are talking different things, I think.
Elk said I, too, would be very pleased if our brethren who happen not to be located in the States could enjoy the promotions we see here.Can we encourage you to utilise your considerable "nudging power" to influence a bit of movement? Perhaps an international beverage delivery would help?
I wish I could help. I suspect the difference in treatment is a result of international sales costs and regulations. Sadly, international trade is not “free.”
No, it is not. I would remind all of you that when we first launched DirectStream we did an aggressive trade up to help people, all over the world, move from their PWD’s to DirectStreams. We did that almost right away and it was met with a lot of good cheer.
The upgrade was excellent value and a very nice gift to existing DAC owners.
I guess international customers are just sick of copping extra fees, costs and none of the “deals” available when compared to customers in the US.
Yes to both.
Those of us in the States are both spoiled by the excellent treatment we receive from manufacturers within the country, as well as the favorable treatment we enjoy from out of country manufacturers. I was recently stunned by how much our friends in Australia pay for a Ducati in contrast to my cost. It is not made here, but my pricing is as if it is. It is even nuttier in Singapore and Hong Kong.
And thanks, Paul, for reminding us of the wonderful trade-up program with the introduction of the DS. It was indeed exceedingly generous.
stereophilus saidI guess international customers are just sick of copping extra fees, costs and …
I’m in Japan, and I got my DS (not the upgrade) in July, at a very reasonable price. After the customary discount from my dealer I paid JPY 600,000, which at the exchange rate at that time would be US$ 5886.
I am in Germany and the DS is 6500 Euro here, which equals 8500 USD…when I see, it can be purchased in the US for 4000 USD (market price), then there is something wrong with the international pricing of the units. Would love to upgrade my PWD MKII for 1500 USD as well, if that is the current “upgrade price” in the US.
+1
hi bene,
I also upgraded from the PWDII to the DS
so i lost a lot of money twice first for the PWD full price and now for the DS upgrade full price.
That you loose money on youre equipment ok but not this huge
try now to sell the pwd here, it is nearly impossible for a fair price
That’s why i think twice now to invest again in PS audio.
The product is great the bridge app combination is terrible.
The advice to use a mac mini or arius is also bad.
So you have to invest 1000 euro or more to replace the weakness of the bridge configuration!?
I sold a DS unit that was once planned for a 2nd system on AGon Tuesday NIB for $3700.00. Best I could get because the retailers on AG were selling for that price and offering PayPal fee-free + free ship. All you had to do is contact them directly - probably still can. No one appeared to care if I had a CD player to trade-in or not. Perhaps they did but we never got that far in the bargaining process.
Hard for an independent to beat that deal. I am fortunate that in my case the dollar loss is tax deductible which makes the “sting” somewhat less egregious.