Thanks for the input and the pdf !
I have reviewed several speakers from DALI and they state in their manuals not to toe-in. By design, they have a wide dispersion pattern. It can vary from one manufacturer to the next…so read the manual.
Here’s a book you can reference:
Ceased using electrostatic speakers at pair no. 5. Now into my 9th pair and they’re stand mounters. Still own pair no. 8 and they’re stand mounters as well. So, No there are no matrimonial risks to mitigate. LOL. FWIW, I did reduce tow in by half. speakers disappeared and the stage got deeper. Shall see how I get used to that over a couple of weeks or so.
With RAAL ribbon tweeters (very wide off-axis horizontal dispersion) in a quasi near-field listening setup, I have my monitors “Toed-Out” 5 degrees. Acoustic W-H-D Soundstage is huge (extends well beyond room boundaries), but still provides pinpoint imaging and proper placement of vocalist, instrumentalist and full ensemble genre. With eyes wide open, the monitors Still totally disappear!
I’ve had MartinLogan hybrids twice now. The Aerius model back in the 1990s and the Electromotion ESL since 2014. No matter what degree of toe-in or none that I’ve tried I always come back to their recommendation. If you shine a flashlight at the panel it should reflect back in the inner 1/3 of the speaker. I get the best imaging and frequency response with that placement.
For years I had my Warfedale 9.6’s toed-in a good 10 degrees or more. Ever since reading Paul’s book I have them set with no toe-in and the soundstage is amazing and so even.
And, you experimented by bringing your speakers 2.5, 3. 4 feet from the front wall and your soundstage, regardless of toe in vs straight on, was what???
If you would like to experiment a bit more, try pointing the speakers directly at you, keeping their distance from the walls and you, the same.
I have Zu Soul Supremes, which have truly excellent dispersion and the result was surprisingly good; soundstage, imaging, etc.
It’s a fun process.
Please tell me that’s not a sub your gear is sitting on.
I can tell you that, but it wouldn’t be true! Surprisingly, I’ve no vibration or feedback issues. My listening room is 10ft x 9ft (no other placement options for a large cabinet Reflex 12") and am able to easily energize my intimate near-field listening space with 110db+ dynamic peaks without clipping, feedback or strain (18hz-28Khz)! The small .5cf S2-EX monitors completely disappear and soundstage (genre/recording dependent) can open up well beyond all room boundaries!
Actually, this summer looking at replacing it with a “couple of Rythmik Servo subs” and installing a “Real Audio Rack” for the equipment set-up!!
Good Vibrations- The Beach Boys
Very good post. Floor and ceiling interactions are also a great part. The floor is often addressed with thick rugs.
My attraction to line arrays was fueled by their ability to reduce interactions by floor and ceiling and sidewalls by canceling the floor and ceiling issues and using multiple drivers to reduce the sidewall effect by not having the mids and highs drop off and provide 6 dB increase over single driver speakers. Dunlavy’s or D’Appolito array just address the floor and ceiling bounce issues-of mids and woofers and a hotter running point souce tweeter and can take some toe in The line arrays like the IRSV and big McIntosh Roger Russell or later designs like the straight ahead no toe in. The stacked LF woofers require room treatment or DSP options to further Line Array bass quality.
Nice kit! Curious place to put them though ?
Kit (eq. + monitors-5ft separation) are on a 9ft wall. My listening position is on the opposing back wall (7ft back from monitors) and both side walls are 10ft lengths (double door closet on the right + entry door and double french exterior doors on the left)…very limited in equipment placements and listening positions!?!
Surprisingly, I can achieve clean 110db peaks with no detectable acoustic feedback or vibration issues!!
I have Maggie .7s and I toe them in to the degree Magnepan recommends - which is just that you make sure the tweeter edge of the panel is no closer to your ears than the woofer edge. So mine are set up so the tweeter edge is about 10’ away and the woofer edge is about 9’-11" away. With the tweeters on the outboard side of the panels, as I have them setup, that has the speakers “aimed” at a convergence point some small distance behind the listening chair. They say this is for time alignment. All I know is it helped snap image into pretty incredible focus.
Some are better pigeon toed…others are better duck toed…
It seems the birds have it …
I sometimes (again) try some toe-in on my B&W802D2:s, but after a while they mysteriously are revert back to a (much more enjoyable) straight position.
I prefer my 800D2s toed in straight at me.