brodricj saidI know. I’ve owned both. I prefer DSJ…actually DSJ is my 3rd preference choice at home. Esoteric is first, Ayon is a close 2nd, then DSJ, then Krell …but the DSJ gets more time in use than all the others put together.
I just used a battery as a safe reference with more or less predictable performance, just to get a quick idea of the performance level of the PSU in the DS. I do not intend to create controversy otherwise, offering a battery based PSU as an alternative. Indeed a properly engineered linear PSU should perform better than a battery.
Yesterday i removed the PSU board from the DS and observed the topology. Here are some of my findings. Please correct me if any of them is wrong,
This PSU board was conceived for the Digital section of PWD. Apparently the 12V section is now used to feed the DS Analog board in addition to the Bridge, having beefed up the transformer a bit
Sorry guys, this is not my idea of a PSU in a high end unit, no surprise a lead acid battery performs better on the analog section
This is quite a step back from DS’s predecessor PWD, which is hard to swallow as a compromise. This is not my idea of compromise either. Rather it looks like a business decision,
Of course it was a business decision, we needed to release the DS at a reasonable price - we also wanted upgrades from a PWD to be a reasonable price and intended to use the PWD’s power supply unaltered. As it turned out we did redo the AC transformer for the DS which made a difference we felt was worth the extra cost but the rest of the supply is from the PWD. Yep, we know how to build better power supplies. We know how to build every part of the DS in a better way: my original prototype cost more than $10,000 for each prototype board:
Getting the cost down to something sane involved various tradeoffs. Still in some ways the DS is better than the original prototype, every time you design something you learn a little more…
The DS’s Analog card has significant power supply filtering, multiple levels of regulation, discrete regulators customized for each use, careful layout of the card for minimal power supply interference with other things on the board… The 12V source doesn’t need to be ideal.
If we were going to build an upgrade (i.e. have a higher cost (price) than the DS) the power supplies would look different as would a few other places. On the other hand there are more cost effective places to spend money to improve a DS than the top level of the analog power supply.
I’d still like to see what DAC Ted could build if cost was no object. Soulution, Esoteric, dCS, and several other manufactuers all have flagship DAC’s north of $20k. PS Audio should have a crack at a SOTA DAC, even if it’s likely to cost as much as these other brands. I suspect the technical expertise to design and build it is all there with existing resources, it’s just a question of making the business case and having the will to do it.
Frode saidI can appreciate this, but I think the Uptone LPS-1 has been engineered with the sole intent to remedy most of the flaws that you address.
brodricj saidI’d still like to see what DAC Ted could build if cost was no object. Soulution, Esoteric, dCS, and several other manufactuers all have flagship DAC’s north of $20k. PS Audio should have a crack at a SOTA DAC, even if it’s likely to cost as much as these other brands. I suspect the technical expertise to design and build it is all there with existing resources, it’s just a question of making the business case and having the will to do it.
why do we need 14k budget for a better psu, i do not understand. dsd is a successful and mature platform. cost of development must have been amortized, too, over the last 5 years. plus ted understands and acknowledges any shortcomings at the hardware side. i am sure he can improve things even within the same 6k budget.
if there is a dsd ultimate one day, it should have a re-designed case for me to consider upgrading. i hated the shiny top from day one. impossible to maintain if you are in the habit of placing cd cases or the remote on top of the unit.
Seegs108 saidI was just curious as to why you think the DSJ is better than the DS Senior? What sonic attributes of the DSJ do you like better?
makfi saidps has $499 products (i.e sprout) in this portfolio that sells at amazon and massdrop. it also has 16k community members in its forums. you cannot have these AND soulution prices at the same time…
if there is a dsd ultimate one day, it should have a re-designed case for me to consider upgrading. i hated the shiny top from day one. impossible to maintain if you are in the habit of placing cd cases or the remote on top of the unit.
What Magico learned from their cost no object M-Project has filtered down into their M3 (and M6) speakers which are selling like hot-cakes and will probably be their most profitable product of all time.
Maybe pitch it to “Shark Tank”!
Power related products are a serious business line of PS Audio. PS Audio are committed to clean power.
PS Audio sell $800/meter power cables, $5000 AC regenerator Power Plants,
Just imagine yourself as an audiophile who invested in Power Cables and a Power Plant from PS Audio along with the DirectStream, occasionally tweaking with exotic fuses maybe.
Then somebody comes up with a $300-400 modification to the PSU of DS, obtaining a comparable improvement in sound quality or perhaps even more. How would you feel about that?
I would feel sick about it personally.
Power supply is the foundation of an audio component and no one would be happy to discover corners cut under the hood.
I wish PS Audio work on a PSU upgrade for the DS, which i am willing to pay for. I am going for my own quest to do it myself otherwise…
deniz_salman said Then somebody comes up with a $300-400 modification to the PSU of DS, obtaining a comparable improvement in sound quality or perhaps even more. How would you feel about that?It would not bother me in any way, but would pique my curiosity. I would want to know what they did, how they did it, and whether I could reasonably implement the change.
Everything can be improved - with a concomitant increase in price.
For those of us who’ve upgraded our PWD MKII to the Direcstream, it’s going to be a walk in the park. 
Elk saidWouldn't bother me either. Almost every audio component makes some trade-offs on quality relative to cost. That doesn't mean the DSD doesn't use high quality components. It just means that Ted had to stick to some budget. I'm sure if you told him he could double the production cost of the DSD it would be an even better product. The BHK is a very good amp. I've heard $30k amps that sounded better.deniz_salman said Then somebody comes up with a $300-400 modification to the PSU of DS, obtaining a comparable improvement in sound quality or perhaps even more. How would you feel about that?It would not bother me in any way, but would pique my curiosity. I would want to know what they did, how they did it, and whether I could reasonably implement the change.Everything can be improved - with a concomitant increase in price.
The fact that a better power supply would make the DSD sound better doesn’t bother me at all.
Speaking of power supply improvements, one of the first things I did to my DS that made a small but, I think, real improvement was to remove the on/off power switch.
Not having a power switch is not a big deal to me since I leave my DS on all the time. And when I do have to turn it off, it’s not a big deal to pull the cord. (Which also gives me a chance to clean the contacts.)
One of the tenets I’ve adopted after playing around with audio gear for as long as I have is that if you can forego a contact, do it. They get dirty and make noise. (If you need convincing, clean all the contacts into your DS with alcohol and Progold, or whatever they call it now, including both male and female USB and power cord contacts, and have a listen.)
Bypassing the power switch with a piece of wire with two spade connectors soldered onto it made for two fewer spade contacts on top of those within the switch itself.
Not suggesting jazznut get off his sofa to do this
or anyone else for that matter, but just thought I’d toss it out as we await the release of Redcloud (love that name!).
Excellent idea and simple.
Minimalist said . . . clean all the contacts into your DS with alcohol and Progold, or whatever they call it now . . .I still have my original can. I use it on many things, not just audio. According to Caig's website, the name changed in 2006 from ProGold to DeoxIT GOLD.
Right, DexoiT. I like that stuff, but make sure you wipe off as much as you can after cleaning.
I had thought that USB jacks were fairly immune to noise, until one night when my system sounded really, really good for no apparent reason. Then I remembered that I’d cleaned just the USB contacts earlier in the day, nothing else. (I squish the shaft of a Q-tip and spray with Deoxit to clean the 4 contacts.)
I clean every contact of audio, when installing/moving a hard drive in a computer, replacing a switch on a motorcycle, etc. The stuff works well and is silly easy to use.
Yesterday I inserted a 1000uF Elna Silmic in the power connector of the analog board. Just like the former battery experiment, it raised DS’ performance to a different level,
Images gained such a pleasant depth and focus, resembling the holographic soundstage experienced with top $ equipment in luxury audio shops.
Much better delineation of instruments, most recognizable when listening to material with two vocals,
The effect is less pronounced when the cap is placed on the power supply side connector.
It is staying in until i find a better solution.
Indeed it is such a satisfying mod that one may stop pursuing further.
For ones comfortable with fiddling with the innards of the DS, i strongly recommend giving this a shot, it is pretty harmless and you can undo it easily, this may be the best 5$ you spent on audio.
Shortly i will gain access to some measuring equipment and hopefully i can discover the underlying cause,
With apologies to deniz - I just have to chime in here that this has a bit of a weird feel - brand new poster, sorta hijacks the Ultimate DS thread, suggesting new mods every other day to the DS - though I can’t think off the top of my head what would necessarily be nefarious about it.
For those who aren’t COMPLETELY SURE that they understand what is being done - JUST DON’T do it. You could kill yourself or your DS, and you will at least void your warranty, so if you break it, you bought it.
You also have to wonder at every tiny tweak being reviewed by a “focus group of one” who determines that each one takes it to a new level, etc.
deniz - please post your associated equipment and/or pictures.
Hmmm…
Me having watched a Youtube video vs. Ted and the PS engineering crew…
I think I will stay with my unmodified DS. Pretty sure… Yeah…