My point has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. I just didn’t understand what you’re trying to achieve with 2 servers. My concept of a server is a single device for storing data, and distributing that data to any client devices that need access to it. If one server runs out of capacity and you need to add another, I understand that.
That’s how my server at home is used. It stores all my music (and video), and the players on the network in the different zones all have access to that single server.
To be fair, Roon has a ten year head start because they started out as Sooloos. We’re not trying to compete with Roon. We will have multi-room services but we will not have end points from other manufacturers. Ours is a very different model of combining hardware and software in an integrated solution like Apple does. That way we can guarantee a certain level of performance and sound quality.
I, too, am uninterested in Roon - especially the compromised sound quality.
I am however interested in Octave, with PS Audio’s promise of uncompromising sound quality backed-up by a sophisticated interface and organizational scheme.
It continues to fascinate me how difficult it is to maintain quality while offering convenience - whether it be microwave popcorn or a music server.
That’s the thing. We realized some time ago that the only way to ensure performance is to control both the hardware and software. Especially in a product like this. I think one thing Roon is battling is that sound quality in a server is a result of both hardware and software. That software is not agnostic to the hardware that runs it. If we just built software and told our customers to “go find the best you can or whatever you have laying around the house” then we’d be fielding all sorts of service calls as well as refunding money to unhappy customers when sound quality did not live up to expectations.
The more we learn about streaming the more we become convinced it’s the hardware that makes the sonic differences we hear. We understand at our core that user ease with interfacing with the machine is essential - and if we get that wrong no one will be interested. Who wants to have a frustrating user experience trying to find a track in your library? That said, once we pass over that hurdle (and it’s not a small one) what will differentiate our product from anyone else’s won’t be the software. It’ll be the performance of the end product.
In purist thinking (and budget) I can see your point about uncompromised sound quality, however there is a practical side that those on a budget need to consider too. For example I have two wireless SONOS rooms, one Mytek Brooklyn room and one PSAudio room. All my music resides on one server feeding all these rooms via Roon. Although the Octave technology looks very interesting and exciting, having it be a PSA only solution would cost me a small fortune to covert all my other listening rooms to PSA equipment. For me personally it is a non-starter.
I certainly can understand PSA’s stance as playing to and certifying other vendor hardware is almost a business on to itself, one that at the minimum would propel the Octave price likely into another stratosphere.
For me I think the most likely benefit will be another option on the market that will challenge the Roon folks to do even better. Maybe they could never approach the sound quality of a one-box solution dedicated to the quality of sound, but they just might be pushed to make it better than it is today. I also believe the reverse is true too - Roon’s UI features will push Octave in this space too. The more people working in this space can only be better for us consumers.
I think the hurdle you describe is hard enough…and achievable…but it’s not the most difficult one imo … there will be other SW aspects, too, that will differentiate your product from others.
People have very different demands except just finding tracks.
Mine, except finding tracks my way are i.e. what Information I want to have displayed in a well-arranged way on several screens including the play now screen. Many other demands for managing my library don’t have to be necessarily be implemented in the SW I play from…I could use a different product in the background if it’s missed. Other people like RayK have very different use cases and demands even to the server SW that’s playing the tracks, which I didn’t even know of so far.
That’s why I think with a proprietary strategy the main hurdle is to consider several people’s quite basic and essential but not always easy to solve demands and use cases, which are currently out of the sight of the few developers and helpers or excluded by not considering them as essential from own’s point of view.
I look forward to seeing an App design of Octave once it’s ready!
Your analogy of a Ferrari verses a Miata is not a good one. Yours are two sports cars that do the same thing but one does it far superior than the other. I suggest a better analogy would be a Ferrari versus a Range Rover. The Ferrari couldn’t beat the Rover in the jungles of South America or the plains of Africa, but by the same token the Rover could not touch the Ferrari in most other environments. Two very different vehicles for two very different requirements.
“The more we learn about streaming the more we become convinced it’s the hardware that makes the sonic differences we hear.”
Fully agree, the Melco N1ZS10 (provided with the Pink Faun Lan Isolator, Audioquest Diamond USB & Adioquest Diamond RJ/E - CAT7) beats my PWT. If the Octave server beats the Melco I’m in, otherwise I’ll upgrade to ‘Bridge III’
This could be where a Octave server with internal storage and Octave renderers could be useful? The renderers could be similar to Sonore Ultrarendu except have an internal power supply.
Great. I look forward to trying the Octave server in serious listening mode and look forward to replacing my Roon endpoints in my casual listening/party areas (e.g. bathroom, bedroom, patio) with affordable Octave endpoints when available.
Brodric our concepts of servers and the functions they can serve and the functions we desire may be different. Different strokes for different folks. No big deal. If we met face to face I am sure we would get along. The internet tends to lead us down discussions that lead to an “I am right and you are wrong positions.” That is not my intent. We are talking about 1st world issues here. I am grateful every day that I was born in this country and that I have discovered the joy that can come from our audiophile passions. I feel blessed that I have the resources, time, and attention to discover new music and listen to it through PS Audio gear.
Paul and the PS Audio crew should be thanking Roon because my $500 lifetime subscritpion purchased 5 months ago has lead me to writing checks to aquire every piece of gear they have in the audio chain over the past two months (BHK 300, BHK Preamp, PS10 and DS JR). Let me explain.
What I like about the Roon application/interface is the combination of the Metadata and the GUI that leads me to music and artists that I may never have found but for the Roon interface with the metadata/reviewers. Roon is like crack cocaine for those that want to find and discover new music. Roon is also like wikipedia for music and artists and their connections. Heck, right now I am using JR River to feed my DS JR for sound quality while using the Roon app on a different Ipad as just an information and discovery source. I currently have 3500 ripped CD’s on my seperate harddrive and Roon makes it so much easier to interact with that data than my JRiver app. Their is no comparison. I also like the way Roon interacts in combination with my downloaded rips and TIDAL. I am discovering more music from artists that I already have in my libarary on Tidal because of Roon. I like the favorite songs designated by the reviewers so I can quickly check out some of the better songs on an album.
Another key feature of Roon is that it will lead you down a variety of rabbit holes to discover artists that have influenced or have been influenced by artists. I can read an article by an audio reviewer about an artist that I have never heard of and I can quickly find that artist on Tidal via the Roon app. I also like the playslist functionality and how you can build a playlist from a variety of locations withing the app.
I hope that PS Audio’s Octave can do all this but frankly I am glad they are focusing their engineering efforts on sound quality first. Paul has admitted that they are not trying to be Roon and I get that. So now you have my very long answer to why I may end up having two servers. My Roon based server for shopping and sharing music while I am throwing parties at my house when I am playing background music throughout my condo, and an Octave based server for serious listening with superb sound quality through the I2S connection.
God bless all you folks. Be grateful we have the time and abilities to share this information. Have a great day.
My hope however is that in the end you will need only one server in Octave. As I understand it, PS Audio is aiming for both the best sound and an interface to match, including invitations to jump into rabbit holes.
This is the essence of what we’re trying to achieve and won’t release until we do.
