FWIW - I was talking about the DSSr. and I was only saying which Mtn. I came from, not that I think it has anything to do with it. I had done the back and forth multiple times. The only difference I could sort out was the I2S connections.
See why I was wishing there was an easy way to discriminate which posts are about what, without us all having to type something every time? My guess would be there are different sets of issues. Not that one fix or another might not work for both…
That’s the thing, a fix for one may work for the other, or not… such is life in the land of voodoo
The reason I assumed you were talking about the DSJ is that you referenced 2.02, which is a DSJ version of Snowmass
Well that was my bad then. Apologies! I may have conflated that with this:
…as I was updating both units. I’ve never particularly gone down the rabbit hole of fretting over the .0x’s of a Mtn.
No bad about it, with or without the beef. It got me to remove the HDMI cable which seems to have helped Windom. What a mess all of this is!!!
May All of Your Problems in life be of this level of seriousness or less🙏🏻
With all if life’s problems, there is always a theoretical worse possibility, situation, or suffering. Imagining something worse seems to do little to solve the issue at hand,…
One could lose 3 of their 5 kids in a house fire. I guess it could be worse, could’ve lost 4 instead of 3, so cheer up 
These are simply 1st World problems. Not quite on the same level of seriousness as losing a child in a house fire.
Hey, man - Free Firmware Upgrades: Not for Sissies! (I done been in the trenches, y’all)
Suggested Warning PS should include with download:
WARNING: Do not Run with Windom in your hand, you could Poke Your Eye Out! ; )
Of course, I used an absurd example to illustrate the dismissive attitude of undermining a concern or issue because there’s always something worse.
Within the context of this hobby, one in which people have put large amounts of money, and copious amounts of time, this load issue is very annoying. Are there worse issues in the world? Of course. But imagining or recognizing worse issues doesn’t do anything to help with the issues discussed in this thread.
We haven’t even explored the Russian interference angle! We’ve just begun!
That is a way to interpret what I wrote I guess…though it is not what I wrote or intended.
I have invested a lot of time and money too but I guess I must have a more relaxed attitude towards these hardships. Perhaps the choice of examples wasn’t the best?
You seem to have a Beef with Windom. Which is Bad.
I’m Bad…I’m Nationwide…brang-gang-a, brang-gang-a Dang Dang…
There’s currently a list of upgrades to the boot loader and flash systems that may help a bit, but there’s still hardware limitations we face to making the upgrade system absolutely bulletproof for every load every time. We’ve made numerous upgrades with each
of the new PIC codes, but it is not bulletproof. That said, I believe the problems are not representative of the norm. Most people load without issue.
As I have said before, what we read in the forums are the exceptions, not the rule. It’s like reading a newspaper and thinking the world’s coming apart at the seams when in reality things are, for the most part, just fine.
Good news doesn’t make news.
I can load the firmware as many times as needed (and do so daily - in MR1 as well as every single DAC that goes through production) and there’s zero change in sound. It’s my belief that this good load/bad load issue is rare. The vast majority
of people with DS load it up without issue and it works fine, just as we do here in production (we use the same process and SD cards in production).
It’s not my intent to be dismissive. There are a percentage of problems with some DACs when loading new firmware. This can be a combination of factors including the computer system that downloaded it (MACs vs. Windows), the system
that writes the SD card (which is why factory loads always work), etc. Those are some of the issues we’d like to address and have been floating ideas to do so. We can’t make it 100% bulletproof with current hardware because of all the variables.
Ultimately what would be best is to have DS DACs upgradeable over the internet through our own servers so we control the entire process. What we have now, with users and their various OS and SD cards, makes it near impossible to get it right 100%
of the time.
I wish we could do better and we will continue to work on it.
ONE data point for you Paul, FWIW.
I have done several firmware updates with my DSD. I have always purchased the firmware from you good folks on a SD card that you mail to me.
I experienced the mysterious “firmware did not take” phenomena when going from Redcloud to Snowmass. I was not hearing what others generally reported with regard to improvements with Snowmass and was resigned to simply prefer Redcloud. Then, just for giggles I followed someone else’s advice and tried going back and forth from Snowmass (3.0) to Redcloud a couple of time. On the third cycle, the firmware “took” and I have stuck with Snowmass (which I prrefered) until Windom.
As I said, just one data point – but, you can at least eliminate “user error” as it relates to downloading and copying firmware, formatting SD cards, etc. in my case (at least as far as my actions). I continue to scratch my head with regard to this experience.
Snowmass 3.0 to Windom, like all of my previous updates except for Redcloud to Snowmass, went off without a hitch.
Cheers.
I’m glad you’re working on it, not much else we can ask. Thank you.
I’m not so sure that you’re assumption that what goes on in the forums is rare. We have no way of knowing if its rare or not. If I didn’t have access to the forums, and I loaded Windom, and didn’t like the sound, I just assume it was a good load, how could I know otherwise, and go back to Snowmass.
Its only because of the forums that I know from people’s experience that there can be numerous bad loads, or even just loads with different effects. Those without access to the forums would not have the bad load/ good load frame of reference, which does not mean they didn’t get a bad load, it just means they are oblivious to it.
Because your firmware update system has no way to verify if a load is good or not, its left a mystery. This is very different situation from hardware issues on your DACs. With straight up hardware issues, yes, a forum may present a larger percentage of complaints than is representative of your customer base as a whole.
My example was purposefully absurd, to illustrate that no matter what happens, there’s always something worse. Therefore, using the something worse rationale to lessen the effect of the first problem, is a limited way of looking at things. I have many more worse examples of this if you’d like to hear them 
D - FYI, when I read it, I thought, “OMG, the guy lost three of his kids in an accident”. There are many here who have experienced horrific loss. Nothing absurd about it to those it has happened to. So it was just a very bad choice of example.
Based on the above, an equitable solution would be to provide for firmware upgrades exclusively via SD cards at a nominal cost and discontinue the download option. As the download option is not providing consistent results. offering an SD card purchase as the primary means to upgrade DSD firmware should solve the problem, at a monetary and convenience cost. I understand the firmware is currently available from PSA at a cost of $29.95, so ultimately it comes down to no longer offering the firmware online.
For DSDjr substitute SD card for the appropriate medium.
Reference Paul’s Post #134 above.
People are still having problems with purchased sd cards from PSA. Lonson comes to mind.
