Did you not read the rest of what @Paul wrote?
4 Likes
Tip of the hat Paul, youāve discerned this 100% correctly, well done.
Especially given youāve moved to a direct sale model without lowering retail prices, seems thereās room for goodwill.
Gato in Denmark is interesting. They went direct sale only, except for in England, and lowered their prices 40% across the board for their high end products. Though granted, maybe they are a little tooooo happy in Denmark 
Hi Paul, as the owner of both in warranty and out of warranty PS Audio gear, I think an exam fee is a far better system, and after the exam, you can decide to proceed with the specified repairs and pay the required costs.
This definitely applies to original owners purchasing from authorized dealers.
For example, I own a couple Enagic water machines. There is a different service fee schedule for newly owned versus second hand market machine repairs and service. Itās moderately higher for repairs of the second hand purchased units.
No need for the confrontational tone of your response. I indeed did read the entire post and what I gleaned from it was that Paul needed input and agreement from company President Laib to implement a āloss leaderā reduction in out of warranty repair pricing. Didnāt sound like the reduction was a done deal until at least one more executive agreed.
That said thereās no easy free ticket out of a situation like this. If the actual costs of a repair are averaging $750 and they āsignificantly reduceā the consumer share that means one of three things happens going forward. Customers eventually absorb that offset with higher product pricing, the owners accept a lower profit margin, or you figure out how to deliver the same repair service for a lower cost.
The relationship between a business and customers has to be a win/win. I completely agree with Danmās previous post. I donāt worry about the lowest price or finding āgiant killersā. I look for long term support and company longevity when making purchase decisions and I know that comes with a price. So if that means paying a bit more, so be it.
For me, the big problem with a $750 minimum repair charge is that it skews your perception of a productās long term value if youāre not a āgear churner.ā Itās been my experience that most audio equipment eventually needs service if you hang on to it. Iād rather pay more up front rather than pay high repair charges to support too low an initial pricing. Thatās just me though. I know the market is hyper competitive and pricing is a major driver of most folkās purchase decisions. Proverbial rock and a hard place.
1 Like
I donāt think the whole story is being represented here. Itās not a flat $750 for everything. Generally the older it is, the more it costs us parts and man hours to repair. I believe the reviewer in the video was trying to have a Quintessence repaired? That piece of gear is nearly 15-20 years old at this point. If parts are still available, itās damn hard and costly to get them. Also, that flat $750 gets you a 1 year warranty. Putting a price on that is not trivial. And if anyone has worked with our tech team, you know we are very liberal about the warranty period. I know of MANY instances where our team has covered something under warranty that was over a year passed its warranty period.
Our tech team is really great. They are more than understanding that if something simple like the display goes out on a 5 year old DSD, thereās no need to charge for the full repair. If something goes wrong, give our guys a call. I can guarantee our team is able to come to a great solution, no matter what.
17 Likes
Thanks for the clarification. Communication via the internet can be a double edged sword. Great when needed accurate info is made quickly available but half truths and inaccuracies spread just as fast.
2 Likes
Just a quick bit of math. If a repair takes a tech all day @ $120/hr then the labor cost alone is ~$1000 plus any parts.
I think a minimum fee and an NTE estimate would be a good way to go on out of warranty equipment.
The older stuff can be a nightmare to fix and maybe an estimate would be a nice way to let it go.
See how much it costs to repair an old computer controlled car.
3 Likes
U-tube pundits are mostly the very worst kind of experts out there; right up there with Faux News. They can say anything they want, with no data or evidence, or fear of being sued. Then itās up to the good guys to do damage control and engage in defensive corrections.
Thank you James for reminding us of some of the great things PSA is known and loved for.
4 Likes
Thanks for weighing in @jamesh
I totally understand there are multiple angles. But @brett66 was quoted the same $750 for DS repair, though he got in under warranty by 3 days. There are lots of angles to juggle, itās not just about dollars, itās about perception by the public. And itās fair to say that the āperceptionā of a $750 flat bench fee is off putting to most, no matter the practical business reality behind that fee.
I feel the YouTube guy in Seattle was being honest about his experience - though obviously entirely from the consumer side. I think he said he was originally quoted a price of $250 for the repair, which then went up to $750 under the new direct sale model. And that contrast was the motivation for his video going after PS Audio. He felt PS Audio has lost its way a bit. And he still owns thousands and thousands of dollars worth of PSA gear, thus he remains a fan of your products.
The other side of the coin is that while he was switched to Electrocompaniet, heās yet to face a Norwegian repair bill to compare
If you call PS Audio and do a little schmoozingā¦Iām sure you can get in that 40% ballparkā¦
1 Like
Hard to accept that logicāsince most knew nothing about the āpolicyā, until now.
The only logic is that if you read this thread, opinions seem to tip heavily in the direction of lacking enthusiasm for the fee. Now that the fee is known, the reaction has not been enthusiastic, including the reaction by Paul McGowan himself who was āhorrifiedā by the whole thing. So much so that @Paul is going to discuss it with the PSA President. Not the VP, but rather the P!
35 responses, of which 15 are by 3 people. Iām not saying I like the āpolicyā but I am saying that rational people should look at the whole picture, e.g., the response from @jamesh. Two people have been identified who knew about this cost, one was not charged it. Patience is called for, not more oxygen on the arson fire.
2 Likes
Truly, if Paul wasnāt fully up to speed on the effected change, the post has been useful. The thread has been respectful.
2 Likes
I just recently sent in my NPC Phono Converter for after warranty repairā¦ Flat fee of $250, not $750.
2 Likes
data point - Quad in uk will service any of their products old or new.
55 uk pounds fee plus parts and return shipping.
1 Like
You might think youāre getting a good deal with cheap out of warranty repairs, but more than likely you paid up front for it in the MSRP.
If PS Audio adjusts their OOW repair pricing, it will be taking from incentives they could have offered up front.
There is no free lunch for in-demand technical experts.
2 Likes
I recently had my p10 in for repair and was quoted $500, when repairs were made it came to $350 including return shipping.
2 Likes