There is serious engineering budgets developing chip DACs like ESS and AKM.
They are capable of state of the art, really pushing the limits of the best measurement gear…
Probably the next version of PMG Sig DAC will have better measured performance, maybe even catching the Holo Audio like measurements I shared above
Hi Tony,
In some limited areas, such as Signal-Noise Ratio its very difficult for a discrete DAC to mimic the performance of an ASIC-based DAC. The reason is the ASIC has the advantage of having many components on a single die. This makes the circuit less susceptible to noise and thermal variations. However it also ties your hands into what can be done to achieve other performance aspects. The PMG is state of the art in regards to noise floor, jitter and other very important characteristics. Its a sweethart.
Cheers…Doug
Someone replied to your post.
| aalumkal
July 22 |
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DGinLZ:
Its not going to be as good as chip-DAC
Could you please explain this part? Proponents of DSD-based DACs argue that they can be superior to using “off the shelf” chips. But maybe not superior in all measurable areas?
I just had flashbacks of ASR. I get measurements but it’s not the end all be all of a DAC.
Thanks for the explanation, Doug. That helps.
It only takes 2 girls to make the last statement true. It’s also not clear if they like you in a strictly platonic sense. 
The first time I saw the suggestion the chip-based DACs were limited was in a review of the Marantz SACD 30 by the owner of Audio Emporium in Milwaukee. The player uses the Marantz Musical Mastering system to covert PCM to 256 DSD. The review claimed that MMM was superior to all of the chip-based DACs he had heard.
I saw a similar claim in The Absolute Sound review of the Grimm MU2. I can’t recall the exact phrasing, but the reviewer considered it superior to chip-based DACs as a category.
I haven’t done the necessary comparisons to know whether or not I agree with these claims. I also figure that DAC chips keeping getting better, so it’s a moving goal post.
As for girls liking me, my wife once told me, “You can have as many fans as you want, but I’m the only groupie you can take home with you after the gig.” It’s probably for the best.
They like him for his equipment; he likes them for their racks. Perfect matches both times.
For what it’s worth, my Gryphon Ethos and BACCH-SP adio have chip based DACs. My Chord DAC is FPGA.
Al’s DAC shop has 4 of every flavor…
No Ladder DACs here. I had the Holo Audio May DAC (Placebo Edition) for awhile but it wouldn’t allow music through in a way I enjoyed. Dull Dull Dull. It was very easy to sell though.
Right now, I’m listening to my PST play Kind-O-Blue thru my DSD MK2. Thank God no graphs or charts are appearing in frontuhme. Jeez this sounds good.
“Paranoid” was my adolescent theme song.
The sound that comes out of this record is most entertaining. The fact that I know every word to every song helps. My wife came down while I was listening to it and I told her I was rocking out to Grand Funk, talk to me later. LOL
As for chip vs. FPGA DAC’s, I have favored the latter and have heard or owned the Mola Mola, Grimm, MSB, and PMG. All good. Like most things, excellent implementation is key to any off the shelf or proprietary processing system. All of the great ones have equally good power supplies, grounding, isolation, component tolerances, etc., etc.
Paul says he’s heard a new DAC chip that has knocked his socks off. I’m in the camp that it’s all good and anyone can be king.
Funny, l was listening to it last night as well. Well lubricated. Social isolation with a basement system allows this return to my savage beginnings.
Weird guy here: I never knew, learned, cared about lyrics.
PS
I got my Absolute Sound DAC reviews mixed up. It is the Tidal Camira LC. “Just for perspective, I’d say the soundstage width and depth with the Camira were 25% bigger than very good chip-based DACs.”
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/best-dacs-under-50k-series-tidal-camira-lc-review/
Edit: It looks like Tom Martin from TAS did make a similar claim about the Grimm MU2, except he put the soundstage width figure at 10% bigger. (Go to 14:03 in the video.) In both cases, he puts an implied ceiling on the sound quality of chip-based DACs. I haven’t heard either product, so I have no opinion.
Hi @DGinLZ looking at HiFi News measurements linked below, it doesn’t appear to be state of the art, or even close to my Holo Cyan 2 measurements I showed above. Always happy to see more DSD Direct DACs coming though. Can see the jitter components and the ‘ESS style’ distortion hump there in the distortion vs signal level plot.
https://www.hifinews.com/content/ps-audio-pmg-signature-sacd-transport512-dac-lab-report
