I’m hoping for some help in my search for a DAC that excels at providing natural tone and “body.” My wife told me the other day that she’s more interested in hearing the resonance and body of a singer’s voice than in hearing the echoes in the room where a recording was made. I realized that I share her preferences, which got me thinking about which DAC could help me reach that goal. So I’m looking for some of those vague and overused hi-fi descriptors such as organic, musical, sweet, smooth, relaxed, natural, realistic, non-fatiguing, and possessing tonal fullness or richness. I don’t want to give up on transparency or resolution, but I also don’t want a DAC that over-emphasizes those characteristics.
My current DAC is the DSD Mk2, which I have enjoyed a lot, but I keep hearing from other forum members how much better the PMG 512 DAC sounds in comparison. Other favorite DACs keep popping up in the conversation as well, but many of those DACs seem to emphasize detail and resolution.
Because I’ve been happy with my PS Audio DACs and the folks at PSA have convinced me that 1-bit DSD DACs are natural sounding and easy to live with, I’ve focused my current search on the following DSD DACs:
PMG 512 DAC
Meitner MA3i
Playback Designs MPD-6
I’d love to see comments from anyone who has heard or compared these DACs. Thus far, I haven’t been able to listen to any of them in my home system, so I only know what I’ve read online. Thanks for any help you can provide!
I have a Grimm MU2 that I am happy with. I cannot compare the MU2 to the 3 digital to analog converters on your list. But I can say that the MU2 is a critical part of a system that complements the FR20’s.
Thanks for the comments on the MU2. I know that Donald has said that his MU2 DAC sounds a bit more relaxed and laid back when compared to his PMG 512 DAC. That’s the general SQ direction I’d like to go with my next DAC choice, but the MU2 (as a DAC-Preamp-Streamer combo) doesn’t mesh well with my current needs. I don’t think the preamp in the MU2 is as good as my PMG Preamp, and I’m pretty sure that my Innuos streamer sounds better using the Sense app than it does using Roon. The MU2 is a great value, though.
I have a Mark Levinson No. 523 preamp that sounds better than the preamp in the MU2. My MU2 feeds the 523 preamp which then feeds the 534 power amp. In Donald’s system, when using his MU2, the MU2 sends the signal to his Diablo 333 integrated amp which has its own volume control.
It is because of the purity of the preamp in the MU2 that another preamp can be used with the MU2. It is a quite remarkable product.
I’m still ‘Rockin’ my Directstream DAC Sr. for over 6 years now. I’m happy even though I heard a friends MK2 a few years back and the PMG at the NJ THE Show (thx James) !
I’m good. ChiFi DAC’s still don’t hold a Candle to the MK1 IMHO. My Orchard Audio Pecan Pi+ DAC with the AK4499EXEQ combined with AK4191EQ is my PCM reference. But for DSD, PS Audio for the win !
I fear that the “room echo” is generally electronically added. Even when singers are not in a padded sound room their mouth is so close to the mic that reflections will be overwhelmed. Nothing wrong with adding reverb that is artificially missing but to my taste the sound engineers way overdo it and the added “echos” are generally identical to the primary, just subdued and delayed by exactly the same interval, thus sounding nothing like a real venue recording. Probably your best approach is a cheap DAC that will smear them so they are not so obvious.
rajugsw, I agree about the ChiFi DACs. I’m not interested in them at all. The smartest choice (as well as the cheapest) for me is probably to stick with my current DSD Mk2. But I’ve developed this itch to try something new that does an even better job of sounding tonally rich and real. Too many of the newer DACs (including those from PSA) seem to emphasize resolution and detail retrieval at the expense of naturalness.
I wish I could embrace what Sheryl Crow sings: “It’s not having what you want, it’s wanting what you’ve got.”
Among your three choices, Playback Designs MPD-6 maybe closest to your needs. I have no personal experience with it, but most like PD’s musicality (ok, analog like to make Ron happy).
Of course, PMG512 should pair with PMG pre well. However, it sounds, in my system, quite different from the MK2. The clean and detail level exceeded MK2 by a lot. But compared to MU2 it sounded a bit “dry” to my ears.
Another suggestion is to tune SQ with cables. At this level DAC is sensitive to IC, PC changes. For example, when I use FRR and Fidelium XLR on PMG512, I actually a bit preferring Fidelium because it brought that extra warmth needed. FRR brought even more cleanness and detail to make the SQ cooler. Anyhow, that is in my system and mine has a lot of silver cables, which may contribute to some of it.
Just realizing you only want a DAC. If you are not playing SACD then PMG512 is not the only choice. MK2 with APS I had was a great sounding DAC, but PMG512 is quite a bit better so I do not want to give an impression that I don’t like it.
I’ve had the MSB Discrete, MU2, PMG in my system. No Playback Designs but highly admired.
Given you have The PMG Pre and the price point you wish to establish, I have my bias. But, I would stay in the lane you originally established and try the best two at home. Only then you will know.
Very natural sound, it does not “amp up” dynamics, it has a very smooth, weighty sound, while still digging out the detail
Effortless smoothness and a high level of transparency. I love the modular flexibility and the build quality, I’ve owned mine for 2 years now, it has never faulted, no hiccups, just flawless operation
I do have the dual power supplies and the ISL/USB options
Lot of great DAC’s on your list, but if you have a local MSB dealer, I would give one a spin
Donald, I am quite susceptible to the lure of the Playback Designs DACs. There are lots of rave reviews online. If I had twice the budget, I’d probably be ordering an MPD-8 right now. I don’t know if the less expensive MPD-6 has most of the sound qualities of its bigger brother.
Regarding the PMG 512, you mention the high “clean and detail level” in your system. This seems to match the comments about its “clean, crisp character” from the review in the April edition of Hi-Fi News. I’m looking more for natural sound and musicality instead.
I’m looking seriously at the Meitner MA3i due to its reputation for being warm and “organic” while still providing good levels of detail. The fact that I may be able to get a used Meitner at roughly half the price of the PD MPD-6 makes it a desirable option if the SQ is a good match for my system.
I’m glad you mentioned SQ tuning with IC and power cables. For quite a while I have softened the digital edge of my DAC and streaming gear with Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs and speaker cables for my amps and preamp. No silver in those copper cables! More recently, I have replaced the power cables on my DAC and Innuos Pulsar streamer with Shunyata Alpha-X cables. These cables use a mix of copper and silver wire, and they provide a realistic level of detail without sounding harsh or edgy.
Thanks for the reminders about the importance of a home demo of my top choices. Unfortunately, I don’t have local dealers for any of these DACs, so I’m stuck with trying to obtain a couple of these units via long-distance shipping. I probably won’t have a demo option for the used Meitner, but the lower price may be worth taking a chance on it anyway. Decisions, decisions ….
As many Hi-end audio manufactories do, their higher level products have the best SQ, and usually the money is spent on lowering the noise floor to the lowest possible level (PMG is one example). However, there is a fine line between clean and detail vs. analytical sound. I like MU2 because it sounded analog with all benefit of super-low noise.
It is impossible to know how good is MPD-6 compares to 8 without hearing yourself unfortunately.
PMG 512 may not sound analytical, I believe, since you have Shunyata cables that has a warm and full sound (unlike AQ cables), and it may work well. You should give it try first.
Tastes and systems vary. I also had the Meitner MA3i on my shortlist, but didn’t listen to it because I was told it had a brighter, more analytical sound. According to a dealer who had both, the MU2 would be a step up. Moon was also on my list. In the end, I went with a Marantz link-10n, which sounds very musical and smooth. Power cables can make a big difference, as can interconnect cables. Often, the cables influence the overall sound more than a component from a different manufacturer of similar quality. When it comes to clean streaming, don’t forget the Muon Pro Ethernet filter, which elevates streaming to a higher level, regardless of how good the streamer is. Interference suppression for the DAC using grounding boxes or noise-canceling plugs for open inputs, like Ansus Sortz, can also have a positive effect. The Grey Knight Blackhole from AliExpress is inexpensive and good; I’ve used it on an open USB input on my Marantz link-10n with very positive results. More black in the background, clearer rendering, and finer details. Sometimes what you have is good enough, but it’s missing that little something.
I just remembered that when I tried the Neotech NEMOI-3220 interconnect cable with OCC flat conductors, it might be the right approach. Between my preamp and power amps, I was thrilled with the midrange. The mids were rich in tone, very tangible, with body, depth, and detail. The bass was full, rich, and warm. The treble was a bit more restrained and not as high-resolution as with my Audioquest Dragon XLR cable. Perhaps that’s what you’re looking for. A power cable for the DAC can also have a similar effect—perhaps a Takshaka or a copper flat cable from Dave Zenwave. Donald can probably add something to that.
Yes, the used Meitner I mentioned is a 3i. Thanks for the reminder. These are the details that too often get lost in the fog of spending vast sums of money on audio gear.