Interesting. Pushing me towards the STR as I love ARC and all its glory. Need a new sub first.
Ok so my opinion on the ARC is that the bass peaks have been significantly reduced when it is on. Initially I kind of missed the bass and felt like the bass was thin with ARC on. But now I enjoy more listening to music with ARC on. Same improvement on both inputs (USB from Intel NUC Running Roon and DS XLR to STR). I did observe that the DS has slightly more depth in the sound stage but that could well be my mind trying to justify the DS rather than going straight to STR USB. In the end, yes I definitely hear the improvement in the bass region with ARC on.
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Hi Ernie,
Were you able to distinguish differences between DSDAC Vs the STR internal DAC? Also, what is your experience with ARC?
Yes the STR is quite good. Definitely worth an audition. I do have an REL S3 sub. However, I like the results better running my Sopra 3 full range rather than the suggesting crossover of 80hz by ARC. May its because the S3’s don’t go any lower than the Sopras ( Both go to around 30Hz) or maybe its because I am not using stereo subs. I had made 2 profiles in ARC. One with the Sub and one without the Sub and currently I keep prefer the Profile with the sub turned off and my speakers doing all the work.
Yes, and you just hit the core of the problem. When I use the Roon, DirectStream to Anthem (with analog only set), the sound is rounder, warmer and less detailed. Pleasant with a larger sound stage, but a little muddier. If I listen thought the STR with the internal DAC it is crisper, more detailed, with ARC advantages, but less mid-low warmth and soundstage. Sooooo, the choice is between:
-
Crisp, detailed, albeit a bit sterile with internal room correction or,
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Warm, full sound with a larger soundstage but you will need to make your room corrections with Roon DSP.
And both are fine for certain musics. I seem to like the DirectStream when listening to Jazz and the Anthem when listening to large orchestral pieces.
To me it’s not exactly which is “correct “ but which is better for what you are listening to at the time. If you’re a glass half full person, this is the best of both worlds, but your future listening will require a little work. One thing I have discovered with this hobby is that the better or more resolving your system is, the more you are able to identify flaws and shortcomings in recorded media and the more you want to buy equipment to correct the problems, which leads to better detail and then loops. This can lead to a spiral of disappointment. The key is to know when to say, “good enough”. Exemplifying the law of diminishing returns.
And that’s where I am, I have the DirectStream on trial for a few more weeks, and need to determine if the Anthem is, “good enough” compared to the added expense of the PS Audio. This conundrum definitely reinforced my decision in buying the Anthem STR. A great piece of audio gear.
Would love to hear your views,
Ernie
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Thanks for that reply. I am and will continue to use ARC in the future. Have you listened to DS into the STR while use the ARC processing or just the analog direct in (no processing)?
Have you tweaked the distance settings in the STR while trying to integrate sub? This really helped me with getting the sub and mains in phase. I’ve found phase is very important in bass detail and punch.
Just analog. I don’t believe that it is possible to use ARC without inputting the music into the Anthem DAC. Analog only bypasses the Anthem DAC.
Not using the Anthem DAC, only the ARC processing. It will take the analog input and ONLY apply the room correction(ARC) to the analog input. On my D2 it is called Analog-DSP. I think the STR has a yes or no option under cover analog. Check it out!
Thanks!
Analog-DSP = “tone controls” AFAIK. Any DSP requires conversion of analog to digital then back to analog out to your speakers. Here’s the section from the anthem D2 manual:
- Anlg-DSP (Analog with Digital Signal Processing): If you want your subwoofer to play from an analog L/R input, use this setting. Analog input is converted to digital using the processor’s high-end A/D converters – this enables bass management, time alignment, surround mode, Anthem Room Correction, bass/treble, lip-sync delay, and THX. These are also available for the 6-Ch input. With the bass management and time alignment, sound quality from DVD-Audio or SACD is improved compared to Anlg-Dir mode.
Yes, this is correct. Just got off the phone with Anthem and he stated it would go through the same main DAC for final processing. I was thinking the the ARC processing was a seperate A/D to D/A doing less damage to the analog input. So it sounds like if one is using ARC it will be best to use the DAC in the Anthem products and skip the separate DAC.
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I believe you and others have got it not quite correct.
If you set the signal path and Pre/Pro settings properly, the DS does DA conversion and passes the A signal to the Anthem’s DSP chips, which do ADA conversion for Room Correction. You don’t lose the DS “magic” in this instance. Rather ARC processes DS DAC output for purposes of smoothing out room and speaker interaction.
At least that is how it works with my AVM50 v2.
Cheers.
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From Anthem:
As for an external DAC, that may result in over-processing as you would be going Digital>analog, then back to Digital for ARC, then back to Analog. This will result in over-processing.
Andrew B. | Technical Advisor | Paradigm/Anthem Support Team
Hey Scott,
So you can hear a major difference or at least enough to justify the cost of the DS when you use it with ARC? Trying to wrap my head around all this as I am trying to decide between STR Preamp or DS with my existing Anthem D2.
Thanks!
Here is my 2 cents. I have both a DSD and an Anthem AVM 60. The STR is a fine piece of equipment and from what I’ve read, performs much better than my AVM 60. I honestly can’t tell the difference between the AVM and the DSD DACs. I think this is just diminishing returns. The major advantage i get from the DSD is it’s streaming capabilities but you could get this functionality from a far cheaper device. I did hear a difference between the DAC on my Node2 and the DSD but not between it and the AVM.
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Every time I make a room or kit change to my system, including making software updates to the PS Audio DS DAC, I run the system and do critical listening bypassing ARC’s EQ/Room Correction function (still using the same balanced stereo input to my AVM 50 v2, mind you - I just disengage ARC).
I tweak here and there, primarily fine tuning speaker location and toe, and just listen for a good bit of hours and days, trying to get a good sense of how the system sounds with the new changes (e.g., a new Ted Smith masterpiece) without ARC.
After a while, I rerun the ARC software to reset correction settings in light of whatever change has been made in kit, speaker placement or room treatment and listen anew.
I have been through this cycle a number of times and I have yet to prefer the Hi-Fi without ARC running better than with it engaged. ARC just makes the SYSTEM sound better in the room.
In short, the DS DAC magic and the ARC magic are separate and distinct parts of the signal chain contributing to the whole system’s performance- at least that’s how I see/experience it. Signal purists may disagree.
The key is to set up the connections so you can toggle ARC on and off from the Pre/Pro’s or Receiver’s remote or menu so you can make relatively quick and long-term comparisons.
It is important to note that most of the material improvements/changes in DS DAC performance resulting from changes in Ted Smith’s programming reported in common by the denizens of these fora have been my perceptions as well. So ARC does not “undo” or supersede the DS DAC’s D to A function.
I hope this makes sense.
Scott
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I tend to agree with Scott.
Here’s the thing, feed the DSD into an analog input on the STR. Listen to it with and without ARC, it’s just a button push. Now which do you prefer sonically? Choose that.
I have never hooked my DSD up to my AVM 60, but I believe in the clarity of ARC.
Yes, sounds like I’m headed for a demo in my system…
I have not yet tried to change the speaker distance settings. Will give it a go and revaluate. I did select phase check while doing my measurements on the ARC software.
Try to set subwoofer distance longer. My sub is in the front of the room behind the mains. Mains are set at 7ft and the sub is set at 19ft. The sub actual physical distance is 10ft. Works great for me, experiment in your room and system.