I think that the main problem with JL subs for music with the default settings is that it’s too “flat” so that the in-room response tilts up below 40 Hz (and then drops down below 20 Hz because of the 4th order roll off). This extra emphasis in the 20-40 Hz range sounds impressive for movies but also makes them a bit less musical than something like a REL that starts rolling off at a higher frequency but with a shallower slope, which sounds more balanced for music in most rooms.
Of course, this can all be EQed and JLs woofers are more performant than the equivalent REL but having “sane defaults” is important.
Well I ended up moving my sub next to the speaker, lol. I agree with Chris and that is essentially the reason I pulled mine out of the corner. Just too much under 40hz and my room has a decent sized bump around 40hz then drops off badly into the dip I mentioned in an earlier post at 42hz. It’s not easy getting the bass right in my room…
Wrong.
According to JL audio documents, the crossover frequency range is not 40 Hz by default . It is selectable from 30 to 130 Hz, with no default.
And the roll off is not default 4th order. It is selectable from 0 to 12 to 24 db so there is a choice of 0, 2nd and 4th order slopes.
That is what I see on my sub controls.
There is a reason why those subs are class A Stereophile and in the super review system of J Valin. Can’t say the same for most other brands.
JL Audio deserves to be a class A rated sub but don’t believe everything you read in reviews and I definitely wouldn’t question the opinion of an expert who designs and builds speakers and subwoofers for a living. I’ve talked to Chris at Axpona and with that very little time spent it’s a safe assumption that he knows what he’s talking about.
Maybe also take in consideration how many subwoofers Stereophile reviews…. Not too many. They just reviewed the Rel No. 31 which is a much better sub than the F113 imo. From my experience @Chris_Brunhaver is spot on about Rel subs being more musical than JL Audio.
I don’t think you understood what I’m saying. I’m not talking about the lowpass behavior of the variable crossover but the highpass behavior of the box/driver/dsp. They are targeting a 17-20 Hz 4th order LR highpass on the acoustic response of E series and F series (depending on model)
Once you combine this with room gain, you can get a response that can sound a little muddy (by default).
A more shallow roll-off (2nd or 3rd order starting around 35 hz or so, like REL does on some models sounds tighter and more musical in most rooms.
We’re working on a 12" subwoofer with similar excursion and output capabilities to what JL uses in their F112 but with lower inductance and lower distortion upper bass (targeting musicality) and a more shallow roll-off in the deep bass (by default). It has has app based PEQ so there’s a good deal of ability to customize that part though.
Here’s what I’m talking about - the high-pass behavior (i.e. low-frequency roll-off) of the driver/box/dsp. Normally a sealed box has a 2nd order high-pass behavior and a ported box has a 4th order roll-off. Here is a graph from above but with a bright pink target curve showing a 6th order (36 dB/octave) high pass response at 18 Hz. You can see that they are quite similar. This is the response shape and filter shape that I’m talking about. It isn’t user adjustable. it represents the woofer + DSP boost + 4th order high-pass (6th order total).
I think they are closer to 4th order on some designs but this steeper response in the deep bass and slightly too much extension in what can make things sound "“slow” or “muddy” once room gain is factored in.
My mistake, the 0 12 and 24 db indeed apply to the low pass filter.
The E L F (Extreme Low Frequency) trim is the control that allows the user to apply a certain amount of signal equalisation at low frequencies (24 hertz). The signal can be cut by 12 db, left alone or boosted by 3 db.
Does that mean that you can taylor the low frequency roll off ?
Mark uses a 3rd order roll-off instead of 6th order but you can see the ELF shape tracks with the response shape of the sub at low frequency e.g the shape below the “knee” is the same).
I would call this a “room size” filter, where you turn it down in small rooms and up in bigger rooms. Maybe the JL would look more like I would want it for a music system with this turned down a little. This isn’t the default behavior though and I think a response shape more like mark’s sub is better for most rooms.
I’ve had a JL F112 V1 for about 11 years and use it in our second system with placement well away from the corner. It mates rather seamlessly with the KEF R7 metas as long as it’s kept away from the room’s corner area. Reliability has stunk big time. Every five years it’s had to go back to JL Audio In Miami for replacement of their crappy capacitors. Their repair dept. customer service has been fast and attentive though. I do prefer my RELs in the main system.
100%. My CR-1 had a chattering relay. I am second owner. For $150 they fixed, updated it to latest specs, and shipped back to me in new box as I did not have original. Only took about 10 days. Not bad.
Since I moved my sub out of the corner I was able to put a bass trap there and holy moly what an improvement. I’m just starting to get some room treatment in and today was eye opening. The bass trap was a bigger improvement than moving the sub out of the corner. I was just getting ready to post this when you posted. Completely agree about corner placement. At first all that bass is fun but after some time it’s just too boomy. So much more tight and hard hitting with it out of the corner and even more so with a bass trap in that corner. And it’s not even a real bass trap I’m using pillows rolled in blankets . The mids are much improved too after moving the bass trap to that corner.
seeing as we are on the topic. I just started to tune my room for 2 channel. I use Focus Fidelity. They have changed their software a bit. Seemed to have added more parameters in the past year and half since I played with it. Much of it is over my head. I was hoping Mr @Chris_Brunhaver could offer some assistance and guidance. Below are the screen shots. Not sure what to pick. I normally do flat response, but now they offer others. Beyond that I am not sure what to fill in. I left default and it seemed to work like it used to, but after reading all this, am I missing something important?
. The mids are much improved too after moving the bass trap to that corner.
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