Any Members UsIng The New EtherREGEN And A Gigafoil

Correct, to get the most benefit when using A side for output nothing else should be connected.

There is no reason a copper SFP won’t work but why? You’ve got 4 copper ports right there just use one of them. Nothing gained by using copper SFP.

Place the ER just before the DS Bridge II Ethernet input. It should be as close as one can place it in the Ethernet chain to the DAC.

However, I would also try placing it just before the Innous and using either the USB or optical output of the Innous to the DS (take out the Bridge II card).

You can lose the the needlessly complicated fibre. The instructions insist there’s no benefit.

I removed and sold my GigaFOIL for the reasons above and use a Short custom CAT8 10% silver Ethernet cable that’s new to the market.

Ok, so your recommendations would be to remove the media converters, use the ER just in front of the Innos & then use USB from the Innous into my PS Audio NOT…Ethernet into the bridge?

I’ve always thought the Ethernet/bride connection gives you the best sound?

In regards to RJ45 cables, do you support the 10% silver varieties?

Cheers
Matt

It’s a reasonable question. I think, once upon a time, that the Bridge was thought to provide the ‘best’ sound, back when most people were either connecting bog-standard ethernet cables from their commercial router or switch, or plugging in a standard USB cable to a standard laptop. Ah, for the simplicity of those days.

My impression from a lot of reading here and elsewhere are that a) the DS is, in fact, very sensitive to upstream improvements (obvious but worth stating); b) Ethernet-based improvements are definitely audible through the Bridge II; and c) the people who have tried a lot of combinations seem to end up running the USB input (inevitably from a dedicated server or streamer) with a high-end USB cable, pulling their Bridge II out of the DS for better sound (It makes sense to me that the Bridge would be a small source of noise), and I think probably putting their previous ethernet clean-up boxes (a la EtherRegen) upstream of their server / streamer.

This is in fact what I’m in the process of doing myself – I am currently running a $25 Audioquest ethernet cable from my bog standard wall port into the Bridge. I received an EtherRegen today, and ordered an Innuos Zenith Mk III yesterday.

It’s worth mentioning that by losing the Bridge you will also lose the ability to control the DS internal volume via Roon – and that is convenient when you just can’t be bothered to find the remote. But for me sound quality will (hopefully) trump that minor convenience.

A month or so ago, I put the EtherRegen in front of my Bridge II and was delighted with the improvement in SQ. Then a couple of weeks later, I added a Mutec Ref-10 to the EtherRegen. All I can say is wow! As a long time analog bigot, I have to admit that I am now on the verge of conversion ( I run Roon with Qobuz).

Some here say removing the Bridge II from the DSD improves the SQ, but I find the Mutec Ref-10/EtherRegen combo is such a giant improvement that my Bridge II is staying because I love the convenience of not having another box with associated cables, power cords, etc.

2 Likes

As pleased as I am that you’re enjoying your Mutec Ref-10 with your EtherRegen, I’m sure most of us aren’t about to drop $4000 dollars on a clock for our $600 switch.

“As pleased as I am that you’re enjoying your Mutec Ref-10 with your EtherRegen, I’m sure most of us aren’t about to drop $4000 dollars on a clock for our $600 switch.”

Really…? Have you spent any time actually reading posts in this forum?

:rofl:

2 Likes

Let’s just say that at my age I can’t hear a squirrel fart in the yard through the walls of my house. So as flagrant as I am with my audio expenditures (ask my wife) I do draw the line somewhere. Although my cables cost more than my education and my first few cars put together.

4 Likes

I read the reviews where they stated a $3000 linear power supply made the EtherREGEN sound so very much better. And adding a $4000 clock just made it so much better still. I’m still giggling about that. When I installed my EtherREGEN I first used a Keces P8 to power it. Nice clean linear power. Then I used the included switching power supply. I could not hear any difference. So I wrote to the man who created the EtherREGEN and he told me, hey, we make linear power supplies and we cannot recommend using one. We can’t hear a difference. Because I have a 7 volt port available on my Keces P8 I am using it anyway. I will never know what improvement the $4000 clock can make.

When I got the EtherREGEN I thought it made the Bridge 2 at worst a tie with the Matrix and Wireworld Platinum USB and HDMI cables. But now that I am using the Revelation Audio Labs cables I think the Matrix side is on top again. The EtherREGEN may not be necessary in my system. But it’s here so what the heck.

3 Likes

Getting a digital signal into a DAC, and how it sounds, is an emerging / unstructured area of inquiry. There are interactions and impacts, increasingly clear to many of us, between equipment that we’re only beginning to understand. And there is wide exploration of topologies and technologies from manufacturers (servers, streamers, USB boxes, ethernet boxes, optical to ethernet boxes, power supplies etc etc). When you add it up you have a dizzying array of topologies, combinations, and price points. Using very high-end ‘old-school’ design topologies, even in an emerging field like this one, is always an option. And there is always a way to do an old-school design topology 2x, 4, … how much do you want to spend? Like what if you took the EtherRegen and put it in a $2k machine aluminum full-width case, and used the most expensive capacitors known to man and machined all the ethernet jacks out of solid billets of aluminum, etc. Employing these old-school, as well as new techniques, is going to result in a wide array of options up and down the price / performance spectrum.

Also, we are in a bit of a free-for-all in terms of topology. PS Audio is one of the most integrated audio manufacturers – you can buy PSA gear from wall to disc-spinner to DAC, phono preamp to amplification to (soon?) speaker. But how to get a signal into the DS (which is a relatively new product segment) isn’t a place where they have a solution yet beyond the Bridge II and other standard inputs. Leaving us with the infinite market options out there, from which we can cobble together many topologies and approaches, and (here’s my point, sorry) these options are not designed by anyone to have smooth value vs price curves. Some people might think that an EtherRegen should retail for $2k, others obviously would say it’s just a dumb switch that runs too hot. So weird bedfellows, in terms of cost alignment across a system, are not that surprising. Hence the $4k clock on the $750 switch box.

… I guess Octave is the pretty obvious answer to my point about PSA not having the full system chain. Stay tuned… Even though I’m hesitant to go down a single-vendor path for music library management and (if I understand correctly) give up Roon, I do hope that Paul and the gents really do put something together that beats all reasonable comers (with I2S as a big advantage in terms of less-finicky topology). From a digital perspective, a dCS Vivaldi stack is a fully-engineered single-vendor answer (for a ton of money).

So a couple observations which are entirely personal: the ER (with stock SMPS) makes a sizable difference in my system. Any sensitive listener who’s used to swapping components or even high-quality cables of different brands would hear it clearly in my system (I’ll make sure my system is updated in my profile). It costs, whatever, $750USD. Not to say this isn’t a real chunk of money, but it is very true that many of us have, rightly or wrongly, an array of non-necessary tweaks costing this much or multiples. This is less than an AC-12, which, incidentally, I’m going to try connecting to the stock SMPS when I get around to it. Feel free to tell me that’s crazy.

So is it a lot for an ethernet switch? Of course. It resembles and ethernet switch but the utility its providing is entirely different. Sooo is adding a $300 LPS (plus an $800 power cord) silly? It’s kind of up to you. I haven’t tried this yet. Is adding a $4k LPS silly? It’s up to where the customer wants to sit on the price / value curve. Yes, it’s a lot of money, and you could even possibly argue that, if you were to take a given system in its totality, it’s not the ‘best’ or ‘biggest’ impact (for instance $4k buys a lot of acoustic treatment, an area a lot of us are ignoring or where we are perhaps substantially domestically constrained). But this is a hobby and people can spend money however they want to. : )

One comparison I keep wanting to make is: assuming you are building a digital front-end path into a DS, and the total cost equals the cost of a dCS Bartok or some other “better” DAC (i.e. a multiple of the price and should by all rights be better in most every respect), have you ended up with something better (by breaking the process into smaller investments, and – not for nothing – learning what changes make a difference, and what those differences mean to you), or are you still a bit behind the game had you just listened to your old DAC for 3 years and saved up the money for the better DAC? … This is an idle question, but one I think about, particularly as I lay out decent chunks of money for … more boxes.

Anyway I’ll post my early listening impressions once they’ve solidified.

3 Likes

Is your Matrix chain also get the benefit of the Ethernet Regen, somewhere in the chain? Or are you just using to benefit the Bridge 2?

Still waiting for the RAL cable goodness to drop on my doorstep

1 Like

I grant that augmenting a $640 EtherRegen with a $4,000 clock sounds a bit strange. In my system the incremental SQL improvement wrought by the Mutec was equal to that brought about by the EtherRegen itself. So on a comparative price/performance basis, the ER is a screaming deal and the comparative price/performance of the Mutec sucks. But I’m fortunate to be retired and able to indulge this lifelong hobby, so I care more about SQ then I do about price/performance–within reason, of course.

For those interested, there is an excellent, in depth review of the EtherRegen plus the effects of clocks like the Mutec and LPS. It seems that the digital world is getting as tweaky as the analog world, and I view products like the ER as analogs to the PS Audio Power plants: one cleans up the incoming digital signal and the other cleans up incoming AC Power. I now have both in my system. Here is the link to the EtherRegen review:

1 Like

Oh, right: Aangen, I have the same question as Vmax – if your Matrix chain is now slightly better than EtherRegen into the Bridge, what happens if you put the EtherRegen into your [whatever comes before your USB > Matrix]? And, is it better if you then take out your Bridge II (if you’re willing to undertake that annoyance)?

I agree, we’re into tweaky territory. We’ll see how far I go before I declare it all ‘good enough’ and give up on being an audiophile for a few years. I’ve managed it once before.

I read that review too: you have to admire his patience trying all those combinations. Nice to know the rabbit hole keeps getting deeper.

So Jack: since you have the wherewithal, have you considered just moving up to a different tier of DAC? (with or without all the upstream tweaks) Or are you a PS Audio lifer and on the waitlist for a TSS? : D

Apologies to all those who have seen my previous posts but there is an alternative that works very well in my experience - buy a dCS Network Bridge, remove the Bridge II in the DS DAC and connect via the AES/EBU digital input. The DS is a brilliant DAC and sounds significantly better with the dCS Network Bridge input. The cost (at least in the UK and EU) is probably comparable with or less than some of component chains proposed above.

Enjoy the music!

1 Like

Relative to a different tier of DAC, I am waiting for two products–the TSS and, a new, tube driven DAC designed by my neighbor Jim Fosgate. Foz has gone in partnership with Jolida, now BlackIce Audio, for some killer products including this new DAC. I have his new preamp and stereo amp–he brought them over to my house and said “you have to hear these” and, they never left. And, I should say, their cost is but a fraction of the cost of my Vandersteen Model 7 Mk II speakers, but OMG! The man is a magician with tube circuitry.

Coming soon along with the DAC will be monoblock amps (tube, 130WPC) and a KILLER headphone amp. All this marketed by BlackIce audio. I’ve heard the headphone amp prototype and my first comment to Foz was “you are going to put speaker manufacturers out of business”! Well, probably not, but nothing short of incredible. The BlackIce website is due to be up shortly and the monoblocks will be available in June.

Jim Fosgate is a genius legend in the industry as the inventor of car stereo and Dolby ProLogic, for which he received an Emmy. I have the great good fortune to know him as a friend and have been to his magnificent sound room many times.

2 Likes

That is an interesting neighbor to say the least!

Alex Crespi from Uptone Audio suggested I hook up the Bridge 2 to the B side of the EtherREGEN, and a feed from my switch AND the Euphony server to the A side. He said the Euphony server would still benefit from being connected in this way. He believed the sound from the Bridge 2 would be better than through the Matrix and all of its additional requirements. I tried it and I agreed. But then a week later the Revelation Audio Labs HDMI cable arrived and I stopped listening to the Bridge 2 entirely.

The RAL cable made a very significant difference in the sound of my system. I stopped thinking or even caring about the EtherREGEN. I don’t honestly even remember installing it anymore. BUT, I will mess with it soon. I will try putting my server on the B Side and only the feed from my switch on the A side. I’ll even yank out the bridge 2 but I have done that before and heard no improvement. I do have a faint recollection of being happy with the EtherREGEN the first few days with it until the magic cable arrived. Up until then I took the Matrix completely out of my system. Fun.

And yeah kids, buy a $4000 device to save $699. In fact, buy the entire $140,000 DCS stack to find true happiness. Yes sir, good advice. :slight_smile:

There is an article in the May/June issue of The Absolute Sound by Stephen Scharf on optical fiber that includes the EtherRegen as an upgrade. Good if you have a long run and lots of wifi and automation around.