Throw your online calculator away as this is just incorrect. The FR30 is an easy load that can play louder than you want with only a few hundred watts. Easy peezy. Really.
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How is that, Paul, when it’s 87 dB efficient?
This is science, after all.
I’m disappointed to see a comment like this from you, Paul!
Impedance is not even considered in the calculation above - the assumption is that the amp can deliver ~1500W (or whatever is required) at the impedence required.
Paul and Chris’ engineering ability and know how is how…
Best wishes
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Unless you are going to buy them it is a moot point. You will never need to know
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The “fuss” is that it’s just plain WRONG.
Either the quoted sensitivity is Wrong, OR the power required is Wrong. (Or both)
This is just acoustic science. To get 85dB+20dB to play cleanly at your listening position, you will need way over 1000W to drive these 87dB efficient speakers. There’s no “debate” here, guys. It’s simple math.
100W will give you a max output of around 92dB max.
From Paul’s own post, quoting John Atkinson:
“He found that the quietest sound, that of a violin, was about 64dB, and the loudest, percussion and bass, about 107dB, unweighted.”
https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/ive-been-wondering/
How are you going to hit 107 dB from an average ~15’ listening position with the FR30 and 100W, Paul?!
Nope, Wilson Sasha DAW are spec’d at 91 dB @ 1W @ 1 meter @1 kHz
xhttps://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/sasha/sasha-daw/specs
Just correcting the quoted misstatement, not otherwise commenting
I would appreciate a comment from Chris Brunhaver.
Interesting how many times one has to repeat something before it sticks. Explains why companies spend a fortune advertising, clubbing people over the head with their message, until it’s embedded into everyone’s subconscious.
Disclaimer, I’m not weighing in on whether or not the suggested amp power ratings are too low or not. I’m just pointing out how many times you’ve had to repeat the statement: “I’m not suggesting listening at 100dB levels. I’m talking about peaks”
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Good call John _Dubya…
However clearly Chris could explain why the FR 30s are easy load to drive…
and I know he is more than capable…
It may well be that others may not be so inclined to accept the explanation…
Best wishes
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No sarcasm on my side. I am used to speakers that have a sensitivity of 93 db per watt. In no way would I be willing to go backwards to a much more moderate sensitivity again.
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10-4.
And perfectly reasonable depending on one’s amp topology preferences.
Regards.
These certainly won’t be speakers for those that prefer tube amps…
No worries. Working from memory always is sketchy for most anyone. I believe the Elac’s are mid 80’s though, correct?
I have a pair of VTL MB450 monoblocks that could handle the task, but they’re a pain in the butt to maintain. Besides, the BHK 300’s sound almost as good and don’t eat tubes for breakfast.
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Not familiar with those so don’t know
Cavalry is on the way !!
I can not contribute with theory know how, but one of my previous floor standing speakers had 86 dB sensitivity and I drove it with 100 W Class A to insane levels.
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Come on, that’s a little ridiculous. Dude asked a legitimate question.
Lots of speakers are difficult to drive. Not saying these are or are not. But obviously it is fair to ask the question
Understand though, that Paul’s very reasonable answer was not
accepted…though very well explained.
Best wishes
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OP’s right that 87 is lower than many (most?, I’m not sure) full size modern speakers, based on my experience anyway. (yes of course many are lower as well, like Magnepan and others). But if the response is flat like Paul said that does help greatly, of course.
Everyone’s idea of what is an easy load or a difficult load will be different, likely based upon the amplifier they prefer.
I always say purchase the speakers you like first, then worry about getting a proper amp. Almost any amplifier will cause even a difficult speaker load to make noise and play music, even loud music.
But of course when people talk about whether an amp has enough power and the requisite current capability to drive speakers well and make them sing, they are not simply talking about how loud the speaker plays with the amp