I recently sold my ATC SMC40’s - once i heard the sound of Maggies i was hooked.
Loved the ATC solid box design and man…the midrange is sweet! The ATCs sure love power but for me, overall, the sound was a little too dry and septic for everyday listening.
@chris I really like the simplicity of your system. I’m also partial to unbreakableness and value proposition of studio-oriented gear - I have Focal SM9s (driven by DS and BHK Pre). I have heard great things about the SCM25s and 45s.
I’ve recently spent a long afternoon auditioning the ATC SCM100ASL - I took along a DirectStream + AC12 as a source. This little system (in box count if not dollars) was really approaching some of the best stuff I’ve heard. Keeps up with the prodigious detail and clarity of my SM9s (although the presentation of treble details is less forward than the beryllium tweeter) while adding major weight, slam, and palpability. Quite a speaker, and I’m actually thinking about laying out the substantial green to bring it home despite its combination of enormous size (‘100’ refers to litres of displacement) and absolute ugliness / ‘utilitarian’ look. @Philipp_Schaefer as you may know, the Pro models look nothing like your very lovely boxes.
Hi chris_y
Thank you very much. I am still thinking about insulating material on the walls …
You described the sound signature of the ATC really well. I’m not surprised that the treble details is less forward to your Focal or even horns. They sound more natural from my point of view.
Did the ATC SCM100ASL already have the new tweeters?
I like the design of the entire Pro Series, although the horizontal models are certainly more living-space friendly.
The ATC demonstration at the High End 2019 in Munich was the highlight for me. Roon Nucleus+ / CDA2-MK2 CD Pre-Amplifier DAC / ATC SCM100ASL SE TOWER Speakers and normal standard wiring. I sat in the showroom for more than an hour and couldn’t get enough. Music that I had never heard before and that I didn’t really like, shivered down my spine and I couldn’t hold back my tears anymore. Emotional, heart moving and natural. No more questions about technique and appearance, for me still perfekt.
And in no review about the HighEnd 2019 that I know this demonstration was mentioned.
ATC don’t pay for advertising. So no reviews unfortunately. They do shows and rely on word of mouth mostly. Sting owns ATC probably because Hugh Padgham produced The Police on ATCs!
I think most ATC owners hear what we all hear. I heard it on ATC SCM 19 in 1994 in and been hooked ever since. It isn’t that you can hear anything specific - it is rather the opposite - it is like the speaker and drivers get out the way - you hear the closest thing to real or live music I have ever experienced. No coloration. They are like some kind of high quality Nikon or Carl Zeiss lens to use a photo analogy.
Most metal tweeters sound splashy to me and let you know there is a tweeter - distinct from everything else. ATC design does not draw attention to anything other than clarity of what is being played. The dryness comes from critical damping on all drivers - this is intrinsic in their choice of damped cone material and fabric/paper/pulp - they output the required signal and little else - very little characteristic resonances so no added warmth, buzz, ring or nasal hum - a colouration you inevitably get on most hard cone materials.
The new tweeters are absolutely superb at disappearing and integrating. Of course they are designed and built specifically to match the other drivers.
The other factor on the actives is the smooth linear phase of the design. There are no phase issues like most speakers. This creates a level of coherency and soundstaging and timbre that is as good as it gets. Most designs have phase swings especially in the crossover - this changes the way overtones combine and affects the timbre of what we hear. Simply put watch this video and how Brian May creates a markedly different sound by adjusting the phase of two pickups. You can think of a multi-driver speaker as like having a guitar with several pickups and combining them.
I would add that Brian could as easily have been an Astrophysicist or Engineer - when he speaks he demonstrates a clear understanding of the the physics of tube amplifiers and why we like the things they do - those added tube overtones are what allowed The Shadows guitars to be heard above 1000s of screaming fans! For audiophiles, tubes can help extract some details in the mix that is not easily audible with Solid State. Our brain can work out and hear the fundamental tones just from overtones - more overtones means better ability to hear fundamentals…
Hi Rhythmatist
What you say sounds very plausible and corresponds to my experiences, and this philosophy corresponds to my listening habits. It’s thoughtful, simple and more than that I don’t need to be completely happy with my equipment.
The new tweeters are very convincing in the overall concept. I asked the Atc people in Munich if they planned to equip the scm 25 with the new tweeters at some point. They don’t want to commit themselves because they are a bit bigger than the old ones.
I believe that adding the new tweeter to the ATC SCM25 would require a re-design of the enclosure. The new tweeter has a larger back chamber as well as face plate. I don’t see how a retrofit would be possible.
@chris these were purchased in late 2018 so as I understand they have the new tweeter. They were the ‘ASL Pro’ model, which is to say they are active, utilitarian finish, and meant to be stand-mounted (despite height of 832 mm). The ‘SE’ model as I understand it adds beautiful finishes and extends the size of the enclosure to make it a full floor-stander.
Horizontal models are interesting - I found it difficult to find good stands for them (I had Massif Audio here in Toronto, Canada make me beautiful black walnut stands custom for my horizontally-oriented SM9s). The vertical Pro models from ATC are more traditionally speaker-shaped, but of course they get pretty large. (The SCM50s are a bit more reasonable in size I’d say).
I see ATC at not so many shows, sadly; this was my first opportunity to spend any serious time with a pair. I will definitely be seeking them out more. However, the large pro models are almost never stocked for obvious reasons - so I was especially glad to get some time with the 100s. Local pro stores have the 25 and 45 (sometimes) so I’ll listen to those as well. I’m inclined toward the larger model because I have a very large room to fill with music (>9200 cubic ft). Adding a JL Audio F112 v2 made a very favourable change in my ability to really fill the space. (as a bonus the SM9s allow you to high-pass their output and save the internal amps the lowest-frequency content)
@Rhythmatist I know ATCs are well-regarded and frequently used in the studio and mastering world, specifically they seem to have a big share in the huge soffit-mounted main monitor space. They do have a niche reputation in the high-end world as well - there have been reviews of the domestic models (not pro) particularly in TAS/Hi Fi+ I believe.
re: tweeters and topologies:
1 I totally agree that analog active speakers are the preferred topology. Certainly for me. DSP actives can do lots of interesting tricks but I’ve never loved them. (i’ve done extended auditions in dealers/studios of the Dutch & Dutch 8c, very lovely, and the Kii Three, just OK.)
2 the major differences between ATC active pro and Focal active pro at a given size / price point are (IMHO) . a) driver range b) driver materials / design c) amps.
a) ATC is all about that midrange dome. This enables them to push the upper midrange crossover up out of the vocal range. The SM9 uses a more traditional set of crossover points. The SM9 tweeter also goes higher, which matters to you or not. It certainly presents treble information more prominently but I’m not claiming I can hear anywhere close to its rated 40 khz.
b) both firms make their own drivers (which of course allows them to really lead in terms of value). Obviously their materials are different and you can hear that. re: tweeters, I would say they’re both transparent. The ATCs are very slightly forgiving in my limited experience, and definitely not ‘forward’. The Focal beryllium tweeters (certainly as implemented in the SM9) are a bit forward and more than a bit unforgiving: If you use your iphone or even a less-than-top-flight DAC, the SM9s will not hesitate to take your head off as they report back to you the inferiority of your component choices. This is why I’m running a DS + BHK pre into them - lesser front ends are not pleasant to listen to (the DS direct is very slightly cleaner, and lean for my taste). However, the detail they provide when the DirectStream is digging deep acoustic cues out of recordings right above the noise floor is mesmerizing. And, not to put too fine a point on it, sometimes exceeds the details I hear with Shure KSE1500 electrostatic IEMs using the DS as source.
c) both speakers use line-level analog crossovers and then amps mated directly to each driver. Obviously the best way to do it, and an approach that, hysterically, audiophiles reject in favour of mix and matching (and wasting thousands IMHO) their own amps complete with the complex interactions of cable, amp output stages, impedances, passive crossovers, etc. With that said, ATC are known for their MOSFET internal amps; Focal use a range of amps in lower models (Class AB on tweeters usually and Class G on other drivers); the SM9 is all Class AB amps.
With all that said, sadly (from my perspective) Focal simply don’t play in the mid / main monitor space. The SM9 with an 8" woofer and 11" passive radiator (or potentially the new Trio11 with a front-ported 10") are as large as they go. For the large symphonic classical and choral music I listen to I need to move more air to get realistic levels in my space (even with a sub or 2 in place), so I’m looking at larger pro active models: ATC, Adam (the S5 series, which are full DSP with a folded ribbon, if I can hear them anywhere), … any more suggestions?
With all that said, I am keeping an eye on PSA’s forays into the speaker world; I would consider it specifically because I can buy BHK300s from the same person who engineered the speaker and have a pretty strong level of confidence everything should work perfectly.
Apologies, I’ve clearly gone on too long.
Cheers.
btw here are those beautiful stands from Massif Audio. @chris you can see that I desperately need to address acoustic treatment as well. The new room acoustic is good for the piano, definitely too live for the speakers.
Your space is beautiful but screams for some diffusion and absorption.
I’ve got about 200 hours on the ATC SCM11v2 and must say I’m very impressed. I have a small space and thus am limited to rather small/light stand mounts.
The sealed cabinet makes them a breeze to integrate with sealed subs. The tweeter is perfect to my ears, and the bass articulation above 60hz is utterly fantastic. The mids are truly special, of course. Seemless.
I’m feeding them with M700 monos so they don’t want for power. They are able to easily load my room too far higher than I can tolerate dB. They also sound very nice at low, 50-60dB, well done.
I can only image the larger cousins in larger spaces!
The ATC 25s are phenomenal speakers.
Very good monitors. Sadly had to sell mine due to space constraints. I tried using them farther-field (7-8’ apart in a large room) and they did not do it for me in that application, with or without subs. I’m looking for different things from studio monitors vs. listening speakers.
Your space is beautiful but screams for some diffusion and absorption.
Agreed… this is underway. Having trouble finding a local expert to really assess the space and recommend treatment. I’ve done the $50 project with Vicoustic but it’s not as precise as I’d like.
The conundrum is keeping the live performance acoustic intact while damping things around the stereo. It’ll be a project.
I’ve been happy with GIK Acoustics. I didn’t use their services but the panels are well made and easily stored. I use different combinations or less depending on how live I want to keep the space…
Good luck with the project
