I convert DSD downloads to DoP for playback on the Perfect Wave Transport.
When a new track starts there is a click heard. Not that loud but definitely audible.
So, who is at fault?
The original download?
The transfer to DoP?
The PWT?
Or the DS?
st50maint said I convert DSD downloads to DoP for playback on the Perfect Wave Transport.When a new track starts there is a click heard. Not that loud but definitely audible.
So, who is at fault?
The original download?
The transfer to DoP?
The PWT?
Or the DS?
Converting to DoP may be a problem: DoP encodes DSD as the bottom 16 bits of each sample and uses the top 8 bits of each sample as a flag that the sample is DoP. That flag byte has to alternate between, say, 0x05 and 0xfa for at least, say 32 samples to be recognized as DoP instead of a PCM track that is coincidently very close. The problem is that if you convert tracks separately then even if you play them gaplessly their flag bytes might not sync up over the track change.
I haven’t run across too many downloads that are messed up, but depending on the source there might be a small editing glitch when the download tracks were built.
I don’t know for sure that the PWT plays non-cd’s gaplessly, tho I don’t know why it wouldn’t.
The DS goes out of it’s way to recognize the DoP flag and retroactively flag the past samples as DSD to avoid problems at PCM/DoP boundaries. Depending on how well your player changes sample rates you might not get even a glitch going from PCM to DoP and back with the DS.
Last fall, I wanted to experiment with DSD and purchased a Schiit Loki DSD DAC. When playing files from a computer via USB, I heard a small click at the beginning of most DSD files. As far as I know, these files were not converted to DoP; I was using foobar2000 with the SACD plug-in, which (I believe) handles DSD natively, as does the Loki. All these files were obtained by purchasing downloads from three or four different companies.
Now that I have the DS, I hear the same small clicks with DSD files (all DSF, not DFF). So it’s not unique to the DS and I don’t think your files are messed up. I have a very vague recollection of seeing something in foobar having to do with DSP effects to avoid this. Hopefully someone who really knows what’s going on will jump in.
That’s one reason I recommend to people to at least try .iso files. They play gaplessly on foobar2000 and JRiver. As long as the DoP is applied on the fly to the output stream there’s no reason to not be able to play .iso files gaplessly.
When you convert to separate .dsf or .dff files you also can add a little glitch depending on the converter - the glitches I get in sets of tracks from Acoustic Sounds, 2L are extremely quiet; the ones I’ve looked at that I got from Blue Coast and David Elias are glitchless.
Ted, I’ve seen you mention playing iso files before. If I understand correctly, iso files are the result of ripping SACDs. This requires hardware that most of us don’t have (a Sony playstation with firmware below a certain level, according to what I’ve read). Are there any other sources of iso files to play? I imagine that one can’t download them because they would be gigantic.
It hadn’t occurred to me to focus on the source of the files in which I hear the clicks. I think you’re right that it doesn’t happen with all DSD files; I will pay attention to that now. The clicks I hear are all soft and so don’t pose a risk of damaging speakers or anything like that.
Magister, if you want to step into the deep end a search online and on eBay will get you the pieces you need… if you have a number of SACDs already that you’d like to rip for the DS.
magister said Ted, I've seen you mention playing iso files before. If I understand correctly, iso files are the result of ripping SACDs. This requires hardware that most of us don't have (a Sony playstation with firmware below a certain level, according to what I've read). Are there any other sources of iso files to play? I imagine that one can't download them because they would be gigantic.There is a long thread on CA discussing this and Ted_B has written an extensive how-to. He's currently reviewing the DS I believe.
rogerdn said
There is a long thread on CA discussing this and Ted_B has written an extensive how-to. He's currently reviewing the DS I believe.I guess we are all waiting for this, but I am on the verge of buying the Aries, so I am even more interested in his verdict on how the Aries USB output sounds with the DS. I hope his opinion is imminent. It would be highly appreciated (no strings attached obviously)
I first started ripping CDs on WMP ( not smart ). A number of the rips had a click at the end of the track. I fixed that with better ripping software and in some cases I used Audacity to remove the click.
It would be interesting to look at the DSD tracks spectrum to see if the click resides in the track. Is there a editor that can look at DSD files to see if there is a spike at the end of the track? Or maybe convert one to FLAC or WAV then look in an editor.
@rogerdn and tony22: Thanks for the pointers. I have only 15-20 SACDs so I should probably just pay someone to rip them for me rather than invest in hardware and go through the learning curve to do it myself.
Me too, If you come up with a name would you share it pls, thanks.
Audio Circle has a thread with some people that provide this service at no charge and have gotten great reviews. I have not used their service so I cannot personally endorse them, but it appears to be legit. Hope that you find this helpful.
Well… cough cough… I happen to have the facilities to do this. I’m in the process of doing my own SACDs. I’ve had the PS3 setup for a couple of years and got the tools to do this sort of thing. It’s a bit of a time sink, however. Ripping each SACD takes a bit of time, and the size of each ISO is pretty much always much larger than the space available on a CD. It’s usually on the order of 1.7 GB or more. Just moving something that size through the process (USB to HD) takes it’s own time. If it was as quick as ripping a CD with dBPoweramp I’d have been done long ago. I know there are some guys who will do this for others - I think on Audiocircle there was a thread about this very thing - but while I wish I could make the same offer to anyone here it would divert even more of my time away from the other things I have to do around here when I’m not at work.
I am now using the DMP transport instead of the PWT to feed the DS with an HDMI cable.
What used to be a low level click between tracks is now really loud.
Any thoughts on why that is?
On what disc is this occurring?
Elk said On what disc is this occurring?The last one I tried was the Mahler 7.
Thomas conducting the San Francisco Orchestra.
It was a DSD download from Blue Coast.
Burned to DVD in the DOP format.
In my system, SACDs played via HDMI into the DS do exhibit slightly louder clicks than DSD downloads played from my NAS to the Bridge. I have noticed that the level of these clicks changes slightly with different equipment and cables, and varies with the preamp volume setting. So in general it’s not something to worry about. But I have never heard one that I would call “really loud” – that would be annoying.
Are you using the PSA-supplied HDMI cable? Do you have a different cable around to experiment with?
st50maint said It was a DSD download from Blue Coast. Burned to DVD in the DOP format.Is there a way to convert separate DoP files to a single .iso- like file?
I do not have a hypothesis as to why the DMP would produce louder clicks than the PWT.
magister saidAre you using the PSA-supplied HDMI cable? Do you have a different cable around to experiment with?
I was using that Geman cable that Arnie liked.
i just installed the cable that came with the DMP.
The noise is just as loud. But the good news is that the PS Audio cable does sound better overall.