I used a regenerator, but a change in electronics to switch mode power made it redundant (no audible benefit) so I sold it. I was a wall-socket guy for several years, but was loaned a conditioner and the transparency gain was obvious, so I bought it. It was not a tweak to me.
I use expensive (for me) power cables, because I could hear an improvement, but cheap generic ethernet and fibre cables.
I posted yesterday that on Sunday I bought Isoacoustics pucks. Not the shiny audiophile version, the pro version, and from a computer hardware supplier (scan.co.uk - the best price and delivery inside 12 hours). Is that a tweak? Not in my book, because it clearly killed a resonant frequency with the suspended floor. Clearly audible and repeatable.
There is clearly easy science relating to whether speakers should be coupled or decoupled from the supporting surface. I once worked as a vibration engineer on oil rigs, and a resonance would kill people and cause $millions of damage.
But there are grey areas, things unmeasured and clearly audible, and what a tweak is is entirely subjective. No one died from using a cable riser and it may sound ridiculous to some, and bring joy to others.
We need a bit of perspective. This is a hobby. For some the money is irrelevant, if not half the pleasure. Amir’s preaching to these types is is to me his fundamental fault.
Every day I check here and every day I’m surprised to see another 20-30 posts have been put up. I’d have thought by now every possible opinion on ASR would have been hashed out thoroughly.
Yes, of course, that’s the HC output that is very clearly detailed in the owner’s manual as not being regenerated. It is a passive output with a balun used to clean some of the high frequency hash that can sometimes bother equipment.
That’s part of the problem I have with Amir. While I do think he serves a valuable purpose in our industry and I am glad he devotes his time to the field of measurements in the same way John Atkinson used to, it’s also incumbent on him to make sure his data is correct and thought through. That’s sometimes not the case and I get the feeling he’s at times more interested in the sensational aspects to build a following than he is in being a messenger of fact and truth.
Over time I bet he is more careful.
The output impedance bit is a great example. Amir is enough of an engineer to know that any device capable of regulating the AC HAS to have a low output impedance or it wouldn’t work. That’s simple Ohm’s law. If one measures the output voltage of the device at 120 volts, then adds a 5 amp load and the output voltage remains at 120 volts, it by definition MUST have a low output impedance. If Amir had given this a moment’s thought he would have realized something was amiss.
In the past a reviewer/engineer like John Atkinson would have shot us an email and said, “hey, I see this issue that is in direct opposition to what you claim, what’s up?” We could then have figured out he was not measuring the regenerated output. Armed with the correct information, he wouldn’t print false information and neither he nor we would look foolish.
Amir will get there. He’s a bright guy (I wish we had his Klippel system!).
The more he settles into his role as a seasoned reviewer rather than an industry disrupter the more we will take him seriously and support him as will others. He has certainly brought up some good and valuable insights into our products and for that we are thankful.
Again I agree with you. Especially when you bring examples that surely are measurable and repeatable (as with the speakers footers).
And indeed this is a hobby. And on this perspective “superfluous” expense. I too get aggravated with those who approaches this like a serious public issue.
And I totally get some leap of faith or some “placebo” effect. It makes everything more fun.
To me, the line is drawn when it gets to fraud. Stating that a equipment or tweak does want it does not do. But I believe serious people and companies don’t go down that road. The marketing hyperbole is somewhat common and expected, and we as consumers should know.
Very nice post. Congrats for not inflating more the topic.
I can only imagine how you feel when you get your company and your products attacked this way, more often than not with some cheap shots. Congrats again for the tone.
By the way, I don’t think he sells any of these topping and other Chinese. He sells Harman.
As a P-20 owner I did not know much about the P-12 so I read the manual.
I do not see anything about the high current outputs not being regenerated.
I see that the P3 does have high current outputs that are not regenerated as explained in it’s owners manual.
Are the high current outputs of the P-12 regenerated or not?
If they are not regenerated, I cannot find that information the owners manual.
At the risk of stating the obvious, the ASR faithful are of the belief that observed performance relative to specifications can fully characterize “the goodness” of a component or system. If so, that belief is flawed as specification compliance, although helpful, is insufficient for most buyers/users to determine whether the product will meet their need.
In my working years, I worked for a large contractor providing communications systems to enhance the National Airspace System (NAS) for the FAA. These systems contained volumes of requirements that took many forms e.g., design/performance specifications, industry/international standards and functional requirements. Many of these could be classically tested empirically, observed, or confirmed via analysis or simulation. Beyond these was the subjective requirement (oxymoron?) levied by the Air Traffic Control users that the system be “operational suitable”. Essentially, they didn’t care about requirements compliance as much as they did about the systems suitability for its intended purpose. In this context, the concerns were primarily safety and ergonomics. My apologies for the extended analogy but it has parallels to the root of this thread i.e., to the ultimate user (us), specification compliance doesn’t tell the whole story. “Operational suitability” for us includes factors such as sound quality, appearance, ergonomics, etc. These can’t be assessed by an Audio Precision suite of equipment but are determined by each individual based on their preferences and nature of their system/room.
Rather than debate who is right or wrong can we reconcile the difference by accepting that the ASR community simply chooses to highly weight the objective aspects with little, if any, regard to the softer elements that are clearly important to most who frequent this forum?
1 : an official envoy especially : a diplomatic agent of the highest rank accredited to a foreign government or sovereign as the resident representative of his or her own government or sovereign or appointed for a special and often temporary diplomatic assignment.
