An omission in the P12 user manual was spotted!
At least something…
if it was omitted by mistake, has a retest been done? a retraction? other than a post buried 1000 posts deep in the review. What about the YouTube video?
There was a partial retest.
Only reported in the discussion.
@Paul this I believe is his company - I have noticed he added an extra A to his name in the about section, but reviews on site have it spelled correctly.
I’m not saying tonewinner is bad, as I think they are a major OEM supplier.
I agree. That’s a good idea.
Where did I say anything about clipped sine waves? Nor were clipped sine waves discussed in the review.
What I did say is 10% distortion on the AC line is not going to create any audible problem. And 10% is quite conservative. Of course if you clip the sine wave enough to lower the effective peak voltage, then yes, your DC rails will be lower and a power amp may sound different. In this case the product may be of some benefit. But that was not explored in this review.
Paul you should know that when reactive components (power transformers feeding rectifiers) are mixed with AC wave forms, Ohm’s law is useless for a full analysis including impedance. This is the domain of AC circuit analysis and it’s not at all simple. And measuring the output impedance under dynamic conditions, such as an audio amplifier playing music, would be quite difficult.
Furthermore you know that the output impedance of any amplifier cannot be lower than the power supply impedance at the frequency of interest. Once the reservoir capacitors start to discharge, you are looking into the impedance of the power transformer in the re generator.
If you use your 5 amp example with Ohm’s law we get 24 ohms. That’s not what I would consider low impedance when dealing with primary AC power sources. And I do understand your unit is probably a lot lower than that anyway.
Now as your re-generator is plugged into a wall outlet, it can only have a lower output impedance based on it’s internal DC reservoir. As that decreases the impedance starts to rise. Under an overload condition your power plant will have a higher output impedance than the AC wall outlet. There is no magic here.
So like I have always said, under certain conditions your re-generator products do make improvements which can be audible. And as far as noise goes, I’m sure if there is severe AC line noise, your box will effectively filter that down to acceptable levels, ASR did say that even though you have a slightly higher noise floor, it was still below audibility. And he’s right. Your re-generator is a high power audio amplifier with a 60hz oscillator in place of an input jack. It’s going to have it’s own noise floor. No way around that!
ASR could have probably explained the impedance issue more but other than that I don’t see any flaws in what was measured. It is what it is. As for whatever was not measured, that’s speculation which is greatly abundant in this thread.
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It’s his opinion. It’s the same right everyone else has here saying you should buy the product. Isn’t that what a product review is? You and many other here disagree with his opinion. Fine. Amir is not in any position to dictate what anybody buys so why all this uproar? Paul is allowed to promote his products on YouTube but you think nobody else is allowed to publicly test his claims and voice their opinions? As long as what ASR posts as hard facts are not fraudulent like rigged test results, then it’s fair game.
The issue is not that he should not do it. We all welcome that. Just do it right and meaningfully for the right products. Its been shown he did not do it right or even test the right conditions that make it shine. Thats part of it, but other part is I guess it does make people in the know get mad when his blind followers (yes followers) just seem to regurgitate what he does/says. But I guess that is more of an internet problem than anything. Even Paul said he applauds him, but things need to be taken into context and CORRECTED when wrong.
What did he measure wrong? Because he didn’t do a listening test his measured numbers are no good? This was a scientific review, not a listening review.
“testing the right conditions to make it shine?” What does that mean?
Published reviews 2
Video reviews. 1
Apologies for fake news results 0
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YES, but what do the scientific data mean in terms of performance?
For the nth time, what is fake? You keep insinuating this but cannot provide a specific example? The impedance question where he may have used the wrong outlet? He tested and reported on a lot more than just that.
Well you do need to have a technical background to understand the data. If you want a subjective listening review, then watch one of the numerous PS Audio videos.
NO, you are the one telling us this is a fair and full test. So what do the numbers mean?
A gentle reminder. Never saw John Atkinson publish photos of readings to make a point. That’s Amir in a nutshell.
As @Paul said, the correct approach would have been to make contact and ask for an explanation.
Is this the wrong outlet test? Are we sure which outlet he used? There is nothing wrong with showing a calibrated measurement. If it was done wrong, then yes, it should be corrected.
I don’t, and I do, respectively, but thanks for the advice.
@glimmie
ASR dismisses “countless” listeners who claim a P12 improves the fidelity of their system by invoking expectation bias. Isn’t such bias also present in his expectation that the P12 messes fidelity or, at best makes for no improvement?
Also, you state of needing a tech back ground to understand the data. Do you mean to tell me that the entire readership of ASR has such a background?
His test data, ok, so the impedance may be wrong, but the rest is accurate, doesn’t support these grandiose claims. He attributes that to expectation bias. Whatever. But as a fellow EE I can tell you the numbers don;t add up for me either as far as some of these listening claims go.
He basically said it makes no improvements with average quality USA residential power. He also said it did no harm other than of course another active high power device in the path to fail in the future.