Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

Jeff/Galen,

I want to try a pair of OFE Iconoclast 4x4 “Generation 2” XLR Cables, but if I’m short on funds atm and just go for a pair BAV XLR, how much of a performance I’m missing? 30%?

Thanks.

That should be the product sheet. Looks like max size of entry cable for 4 pin would be 0.190 inches… but I’m not accustomed to reading these.

Believe me, if I could do this type of thing I definitely would. The cable is just too big. Maybe you can talk Galen into designing a miniature stereo audio cable…

I would defer to @BobBJC on this question- or many of the other folks on here who have auditioned both.

I see, thanks again.

I can’t be the only one interested in this!

There is no way to define sound as a “percent”. If we could, that would mean we can determine to no shadow of doubt what 100% was, and we can’t.

To some any change to or away from their ideal preference, and it is a preference, is worth solving. A perfect cable won’t be perfect to every ear even if the user knows it is perfect (tone controls anyone!).

That said, the 4x4 and 1x4 30 AWG designs tend to open up the upper frequency range as reported by most users, It is more architectural and less impressionistic art if you will.

Both cables are more transparent than typical designs as they use an air gap dielectric so either, compared to solid dielectric designs, will sound more “open”.

The BAV is an incredible design based on the design target of sound and audible performance. I love how this cable turned out. It is a wonderful option with way more sound than expected. If you were to put a percent on it I’d stick it in the less than 10% range, it is that good.

Measured electrical are slight, BAV has a 85% RF Vp verses 87% RF Vp on the Teflon ICONOCLAST design. This changes the capacitance a touch, and just a touch. Inductance is the same (no change in the loop area). Capacitance is the dielectric.

Know too, that the conductors are Both using the FEP spacer thread around the conductor so the plastic closest to the wire is FEP. The BAV does have the DOW Engage dielectric support dielectric structure to gain flex and durability. The material outside the braid shield makes no audible changes.

There is a tech paper on the BAV XLR that pretty much lays it all out how it works and why. Numbers and all that we can measure. But we have no percent of 100% until we know when we ever get to 100%. That’s impossible through a cable.

Best,
Galen

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Wudai, measuring cable performance as a percentage in audio cables is possible “electrically.” Measuring how one cable compares to another in terms of sound quality is in my opinion, a nearly impossible feat. We prove and live with this fact every day when we test and provide the electricals on every Iconoclast cable that we produce. The copper variants of both Iconoclast speaker cables and IC’s within type measure very, very close to the same and yet they without question sound different from one another.

I wish we could measure and communicate this in an accurate manner especially when there are other variables including the symmetry between components and speakers. And there are room interactions that might possibly come into play on how one cable might “sound” when compared to another.

Leave it to say that an Iconoclast 4x4 XLR in any of the coppers when used in an analog application is going to sound significantly better than a BAV XLR patterned after the Generation 1 XLR and using different construction materials.

The BAV RCA/XLR (part number 2468) was actually a product targeted towards to the pro AV segment where it would sonically and mechanically outperform Belden competitors in pre/post production, mastering and recording studios, live concert/musical venues and even news gathering applications where cables were constantly deployed and retrieved, slammed in road show cases and often drug through the mud and snow. The crush resistant and “bend moment” properties of our BAV is simply amazing and for the dollar, there is nothing close. For a few dollars more, you get a nice move up to a great audiophile performer. The same can be said for copper variant and we do offer liberal trade up options.

We prefer customers who are “on the fence” about BAV or Iconoclast to try both. No sense looking over your should wondering if you made the correct choice.

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Edwin, I don’t always check my private messages here. It looks like the right parts of the team provided answers to your question on the headphone cable. BAV is too thick. On the BJC cable side we can certainly provide a nice option for your application.

Full Iconoclasts loom at the Florida International Audio Expo.

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you mean, the pricey cables are hidden that well

my earlier comment presumed that they were missing in action

Incognitoclast.

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Yeah, they didn’t do a very good job making that obvious. Even the room equipment sheet in the room has only “Iconoclast” and nothing else.

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If it sounds nice you don’t need to see them! Our products are like that, we get the best out of what’s at the ends of the chain. We don’t make the music, we just move it. It’s all good to just to mention their use.

Best,
Galen

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I wish I could have been there to represent the brand! Maybe next year… Didn’t know until the last minute that we would be in a listening room. I did send them a bunch of literature with the cables but I guess they didn’t put it out.

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As some of you may have observed in the PS Audio Marketplace I had listed several Items for sale.

The money from these sales went towards a 2nd pair of Series II SPTPC cable. The 2nd set of cables are now running in parallel to the first. Meaning both sets of speaker cable are connected to the same stereo amplifier posts and the same two way stand mount speaker binding posts.

My idea to try parallel cables came about after reading Galen’s post about his parallel set up, but also and his tendency to not comment on the sound of his own cables. I noted when reading Iconoclast by Belden Series 2 speaker cables Review - Dagogo, that Doug Schroeder indicated he ran parallel cables. Doug comments on the overall attributes of the cable, but there is no comparison between single and parallel runs. There has been little written about the sound of parallel cables on the PS Audio Forum, so I decided to share some observations.

It may be argued that any findings might be influenced by a certain cognitive dissonance or self-justification for spending over $6000 for speaker cables. However, if my findings were not favorable on the primary system. My contingency plan was to move both pairs of cables on my secondary system which consist of two pairs of KLH Nine speakers, and where I would be content and happy to keep them.

A single pair of Series II SPTPC cables had been in the system for several months. So, I was acquainted with their sound, and they were well burned in. Adding the 2nd set of Series II SPTPC cables with less than 200 hours of burn-it yielded only slight improvements. My initial impression on listening was disappointment it would hardly justify the money spent. Perhaps the anticipated changes and my expectations had been built up to high.

After approximately 400 hours of burn in, with no other source, system or room changes made. To my surprise I began to notice vocalist especially sounded more human, organic, what some might describe as being more natural and warmer. I noted the qualities I had come to prize with a single run of Iconoclasts cables were now enhanced. As always, adding Iconoclast cables was like adding a better piece of equipment to the system. There was slightly greater liquidity, timbre, body, weight, and bloom to instruments. The soundstage size improved, there was greater image specificity and placement, and ease in distinguishing between different instruments and vocals. Chet Bakers vocals on 'That Old Feeling", had greater room presence and emotion, his horn was less etched and had more appropriate overtones. Now every recording sounds more complete, live, present, and richer. There is no loss of upper frequency and detail it is now more refined, there is greater tonal balance, overall palpability.

Was it worth the expense? Yes and No. With the Parrell run I can hear improvements of a subjective estimated 10-20%. However, I am more than happy with the positive changes a single run brought to my system and could be done there.

-Will these stay in my primary system: Yes. As good as a single run is, now having heard a parallel run, and experimented with taking the cables in and out of the system multiple times. I know it would be difficult to return to just one pair of cables.

-Would I recommend single and, or parallel runs of Iconoclast cables to cherished friends? Absolutely, I already have done so multiple times.

In my experience the expense of the Iconoclast cable is the price of being an Audiophile. As Audiophiles we are constantly evaluating what will provide the most value long term, is it within our financial reach, and what are we willing to sacrifice. The Series II SPTPC cable is a worthwhile investment in my opinion and should be a part of a system upgrade plan.

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Jeff, I didn’t see any Iconoclast literature the times I stopped in to listen.

I mentioned to the fellow who seemed to be running the room:
“Oh, I see you’re using Iconoclast”
“what?”
“Iconoclast cables”
2,3,4,5, “oh…yes”

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I also talked to a guy in the room from I think Sonore. Surprised to learn from him that they are a dealer. Also by the looks of it, they were using a different brand power cable unless there’s a different one outside of BAV.

Not surprising on the power cable.

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Why stop at two? Just kidding, but glad to learn you are enjoying the improvement.

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