The BAV series of 10, 12 and 14 AWG power cords are going to be UTP and test very well for dielectric performance in the audio band, and passively attenuate RF with a high absorption and loss tangent values verified with testing against even my $$$ reference cord. The tests show superior passive dielectric noise rejection. These will be nice, affordable cords. We’ll have the data that drove the decisions…and WHY we won’t make cords when we already have a great set of cable. This was an unexpected test regimen. I use the BAV series in my system right now…all of the power cords are what we will offer.
We expect to be able to show them at AXPONA if we get the approved parts BOM in house in time. We will have a booth in the floor area.
The ICONOCLAST power cords won’t be for awhile as it they are “new” cords and will be far more complex (added shields and magnetic EM wave cancellation tech). I can’t make promises on that as we don’t do promises, we go by the test data on real stuff.
Your BAV cords just individual conductors of 10 , 12, and 14? What about insulation dielectric and weave. Any multiple conductors or iconoclastic twist weaves?(
Our BAV cords are EPDM thermoset dielectric and jacket design. Most applications don’t need $$$ shields and lower inductance as modern power supplies are pretty darn good. The BAV series has very competitive L and C as well as passive RF absorption where it is needed, better than $$$ cords sets used as reference.
The data will be available to everyone and what we did and why. I use all the cords in my system.
Only the ICONOCLAST cordsets will use multiple weave wires to cancel EM waves to lower inductance and use 100 a dB shield. The dielectric will remain the same to superimpose natural RF dissipation to the field cancellaton properties.
Don’t hold your breath on ICONOCLAST power cords. There are performance IDEALS, and then there are UL safety REQUIREMENTS that can limit the extent a design meets best case electrical and that may NOT be an adequate design for safety. You get one, and see if the second one is still intact.
I am currently breaking in a new and just repaired ARC pre and as soon as it breaks in, some of the last upgrades I need to do is from pre to mono amps. I have been following this thread with great interest as I got a little birdie from Pass, when I inquired about speaker cables that mated well with their equipment and the ARC 5se I was advised to research the Iconoclast speaker cables.
With that out of the way, I have a somewhat unusual issue and I am looking for suggestions around the problem. My current and for foreseeable future I currently run Shahinian Acoustics Hawks. These speakers have two distinct components, a sub base and an assembly of the mid/hi speakers. In order to bi-wire, there would need to have 3’ of bare leads to get into the top assembly as posts are under the assembly. The sub base also have connections in bottom of the cabinet.
Good Morning Steve, thanks for sharing the info on the tip from Pass. I will have to send them a thank you note. We are indeed the best choice in any truly high performance system. Give us a try when the time comes and you will be totally amazed at the improvements in sound quality.
My pleasure. When the time come (which should be shortly), I am thinking of either two pairs of 5 footers, unless you can make a pair of bi-wired pair with 24” or so of exposed leads to the speakers so I can connect to both terminals. At some point I will measure exactly what would be required to get to both sets of terminals.
For ANY cable to work right, the DISTANCE between the cable conductors has to be controlled or…you really don’t get the specs you are paying for.
Capacitance is distance and dielectric determined, and inductane is distance and magnetic field determined.
You want to keep the ENDS of the cable as close as you can. The REASON ICONOCLAST is so tightly bound, and works so well is I make sure the two polarity are as CLOSE as I can get…and keep them there as much as possible.
OK, what we need is maybe some pictures to see if we can make jumpers of some sort without such a LONG distance of uncontrolled polarity separation.
Yes, SOME separation is a requirement to use the cables and this is why we test them as an ASSEMBLY as we make them for you, not the BULK cable with no polarity separation(s). That’s cheating as you’ll NEVER be able to use it like that.
Laying of the hands won’t ever get past the physics. Cognative effort is required to make sure we sell you a workable solution and not just take your money. I educate you so you KNOW if we are indeed doing that.
I like to keep the polarity “legs” six inches or so long if we can. Many pieces of equipment set the terminals too far apart, negatively impacting the cable electricals. What happens INSIDE is important, too, as it is part of the cable chain.
I pretty much assumed as much which is why when I started looking at the speaker cables, I determined one of the best alternative would be using one pair for the woofer sections, and one pair for the assembly. The only other possibility would to go into subs and jump to top assembly with a 30” cable from the subs to top assembly. Terminals are on the bottom of both pieces
"I got a little birdie from Pass, when I inquired about speaker cables that mated well with their equipment and the ARC 5se I was advised to research the Iconoclast speaker cables."
I just wanted to hi-lite this, boys and girls.
Ding ding!
Hello, McFly!
How much better can you do than this, I ask you?
Seriously, this brings tears to my eyes after all these years. I’m not lying.
ICONOCLAST tries to design based on fundamental measurement…it has to measure better to sound better. I know that this isn’t the way this market is approached, and I understand that. Every “measure” of ICONOCLAST can be won or lost to a standard test, I can’t win a theoretical argument void of measure and merit because I don’t have one.
Thus I also understand that I will not sell you what I can’t show in measure. How it sounds is system to system.
Peer review of the data can only make how we characterize audio cables more and more meaningful to our hobby. And yes, putting the data out there can highlight error that can need correction or standardization. But that’s the point, to turn cable into a repeatable and meaningfully characterized component. All cables are ignorant to our wishes, sales or marketing and obey the laws of physics. The better we can define specific variables, the better we can correlate one cable design to another for true differences. To buy what might best benefit our system.
I may be a start on doing things based on data driven designs, but I sure hope we get really smart people to carry on and exceed how we charaterize cables. No, not make the same cables as this is still wide open, but how we define WHAT they do in specific areas to a standard, like electronics and speakers. Why not?
So far, sticking to the fundamental DESIGN variables has made exceptional cables in application. Cable that is better than the prior art in measure. And no, not every system will experience the same changes but that doesn’t change the mesurements that we sell, and test your assembly to show what you bought. The customer, in my view, needs to know what is better and by how much and to a standard. And surely be able to return them if that measure isn’t meaningful in use.
After chatting with Vasken from Shahinian Acoustics, we seem to have come to the conclusion that for the Hawks a pair of cables going to each speaker will be the best way to handle the new cable issue. It will require purchasing two sets of speaker cables but in very short runs.
Over this weekend I will determine if it will be a 4 or 5 foot run and be ready to order them at that point. I am currently in the OFE camp as my anonymous source at Pass neglected to specify which would be the better choice, but from what I have seen here I think I will do well to start in the middle and go from there.
I cannot thank Bob and Galen enough for helping me navigate the treacherous minefield of speaker cables… next maybe some new ic’s
Please send me a private message with a day time phone number. I would like to spend a few minutes on the phone and hopefully convince you to let me send you a couple of variants to compare when you are ready. Many here will tell you of the advantages of trying more than one copper in your home on your system. Don’t like folks to look back over their shoulder wondering if they made the right decision. No risk involved… We will work with you for the long haul.
Everybody at BJC / Iconoclast are straight shooters and want nothing but the best for you and your system. They are the perfect example of a customer support driven business model and also “made in the USA”.
Highly recommend trying the different coppers before you buy as Bob has
suggested. In my system, the OFE and SPTPC cables sound very different,
even though the designer indicates that measures show this is only in the
extreme high frequencies. What’s to lose. Try them both. The camp you join
should be of your own making.
Hi Steve. Another Shahinian owner! Yes, the underside of the Hawk top is a real b!tch for speaker cables. The Iconoclast cables may be tricky, IMO, in getting under there. Good luck.
I wonder if my talking of Iconoclast with the Pass boys may have been a contributing factor? I’d been discussing them with one of the boys at Pass Labs during the latter half of last year and suggesting that they should give them a try. Is it possible they listened?
It cuts both ways! I listened to an XP-10 preamp I bought used. That got be to purchase the XP-30 pre amp and XP-25 phono head amp and I could not be happier about that! Wonderfully neutral, fast and transparent units. Highly recommended brand.
I talked Bob Howard into the pre-amp as well (the newest model).
Stevea1298, go to the Audio Bacon web site and search for ICONOCLAST and read their impressions of the copper variants. The copper are, aggravatingly as it seems, different. I meant to prove that the DESIGN was the “thing” and ended up proving to myself EVERYTHING was the “thing”. I will say the DESIGN does the heavy lifting and the copper is a “patina” but to one person anything is a “big” deal so listen we must do.
Yes, the underside of the Hawk top is a real b!tch for speaker cables. The Iconoclast cables may be tricky, IMO, in getting under there. Good luck.
