I spent a while this afternoon thinking of a budget Roon-ready replacement to improve on the Powernode 2i. I have a Chord Mojo sitting here unused, a very good DAC indeed, I could add a Pro-Ject S2 Ultra streamer one end and a Rega Brio-R the other. Both the Mojo and S2 can run on 5v battery power, and sound better when they do, so I will have to replace the phone battery my son stole off me, but it would cost me £800 (about €900) and I could sell the 2i for about £600. The three components would also be almost as small as the Bluesound. Allowing £300 for the Mojo it’s a £1,100 system. A more common system would use the Chord Qutest as it has RCA outputs, but would take the price close to £2,000. That said, the Stellar Strata is £3,000 and it doesn’t do Roon.
I’m sure you appreciate that when customers are looking at Bluesound, what to high-end punters are trivial amounts of money are not to them, so getting something that costs twice as much is usually not an option.
Of course. Cheap is good for the vast majority of people - enthusiast or not.
It is silly to criticize something merely because it is inexpensive, and equally silly to criticize a product merely because it is more expensive than a cheap option. .
Cheap is a relative term, depending who’s money it is.
Comparisons should be done at similar price points. PSA and Bluesound are both coming to the UK from across the Atlantic. They should not be comparable as the SGCD (DAC/pre-amp) is more than three times the price of the Node 2i (steamer/DAC/pre) at £1,600 vs £500. Plus the Node 2i has a great streamer and is Roon-Ready, whereas the SGCD does not. So it’s DAC really should be considerably better for that price (at Chord Hugo price).
The Stellar Strata and Powernode 2i are comparable in function, except the Strata is not Roon-Ready and uses a 3rd party app, but again the Strata is more than three times the price at £3,000 compared to £800 for the Bluesound.
Which is better value for money is another matter. I use Bluesound with very revealing speakers way above its pay grade ($7,100 new) and it is extremely competent, so that in my assessment there is no need to spend 2 or 3 times as much on electronics (whether PS Audio or anything else).
As I said earlier, the main thing about Bluesound, besides a great app, is that it performs very well for an exceptionally good price. Even Cambridge Audio, who overall are perhaps the best quality for value, don’t get close.
Again, if you are pleased with the Bluesound this is great. As it works for you and meets your needs it is a perfectly fine choice - for you. I would hold out for a better sounding DAC.
My 4-year old Node 2 recently died. Bluesound’s support’s default mode is to attribute bricked nodes to a failed firmware update, which it was not, and after quite a lot of unnecessary back-and-forth they conceded that it was a hardware problem, most likely failed caps (which seems to be a known problem with these.) As the unit was well out of warranty they did not offer a replacement (which I did not ask for and didn’t expect) but did offer me a discount on a new unit of about $125, contingent on return of the dead one. The return went smoothly and now the new Node 2i is in place. From what I have read in the Bluesound fora and in a few other places, one should not expect a service life of much more than i got with my Node 2. YMMV of course and I do not know if the Node 2i is better in this regard. I still think this is a fairly decent product overall - assuming that it is not targeted at high-end audiophiles - but I also think that their interface needs work as well as their parts quality. We wanted something that the spousal unit could use to aggregate a bunch of streaming sources, including Tidal and Radio.com, as well as access our local library and, when necessary, use via its one analog input. It works fine for that and she is happy with it, which is what counts. I use my DSD and self-built server for “serious” listening.
BlueSound is an excellent streaming platform, based long proven technology and expanded in incremental steps to support any computer hardware based on Microsoft, Android and Apple.
If you don’t connect to the analog output but to the digital output it is still a mega deal for the streamer alone.
It simply works and the best: without subscription fee.
The EUR 500 2i Node might not be equipped with discrete components / tube stage / fully balanced high end circuitry, but BlueSound has certainly managed to awake interest of my family to get into the music listening experience as they can play any of their music anywhere in the house during lockdown. Much better than EarPods and more fun, nice to see the kids without wires or plastic parts protruding from their ears and being able t talk to them without having to wave for social connection.
Why would I want a EUR 5000 DAC in every room? My wife and children were impressed by the sound quality at the dealer when the BlueSound Node was connected to a decent amp and speakers. They call me barking mad to plan to fork out EUR 4500 for any improvement in sound.
But spending the budget on expanding the system and buy good speakers is what the BlueSound system motivates many music enthusiasts to do.
And if you want a better DAC / pre-amp, buy the higher end NAD options, or Dali and still enjoy the easy to use BluOS system. The BluOS system doesn’t automatically withdraw EUR 120 per year from your bank account. Neither do you have to pay for EUR 700 for a life time experience. For the fact that BluOS is supported by the income of the hardware any BluOS compatible solution is a mega deal looking at those price levels.
Audiophiles will complain about Bluesound’s lack of conventional wired connectivity, and they would have a good point. The lack of pre-amp outputs is major shortcoming on the Powernode 2i as I would like to plug it in to a better amplifier. Other products like the Quad Vena, Audiolab M-One etc have this.
The answer would have been to buy the Node 2i in the first place.
All of which misses the point that the Bluesound is a plug-and-play device optimised for ethernet streaming as a standalone product, and it does that superbly well. Additional features cost money and demand a larger format which defeats the whole purpose of it.
Hi Elk, I can chime in here. I have a Node 2 and used to use it as a standalone unit (streamer & DAC) into a nu wave DAC before upgrading to the Stellar gain cell DAC. The node 2 as a streamer and DAC was good for sure and especially considering the price, but when I attached it to the Stellar gain cell DAC the PS audio DAC was clearly a step above and definitely worth the transition. Though I would expect this given the price of course.
As a side note, I prefer the sound of the node 2 into the Stellar gain cell DAC using coax instead of optical.
A very helpful reply. I suspected the Bluesound streamer would work nicely with another DAC. I also expected the Stellar gain cell DAC to sound better than the Bluesound built in DAC.
I expect the Stellar gain cell DAC possessed a more open, less veiled sound, with a bit more punch. What did you hear?
I’m a huge Bluesound fan and my whole house is set up with it. For the price, it is a great streamer / DAC platform, but I agree that for many, the built-in DAC is easily beat by PS Audio DACs.
One piece of advice, though. I used to own a Bluesound Vault in my primary system, but as the system became more and more robust, I moved away from the Bluesound Vault, and replaced it with a NAD M50.2 streamer, which runs on BluOS. Hooked up to a DSD Sr, via a Synergistic Research Galileo SX AES cable, it can’t be beat. It is a streamer of the highest fidelity, with incredibly noise-free architecture. It easily beats the Bridge in the DSD and I’m willing to bet it is as good as the Innuos and Auralic units in or above its price range. The built quality is top notch, and the stability is excellent. If you can find it for less than $2K on the used market, it’s well worth it. Comparing to a Bluesound Vault, I found the NAD to be more organic and resolving, while the Vault was more fatiguing and shrill in comparison, likely due to the jitter levels of its cheap, in isolated architecture.
Hopefully that gives some hope for those who want to start on a Bluesound platform and upgrade hardware from there while keeping the software.
I’ve since added an EtherRegen, powered by a Farad LPS, connected with good Wireworld Ethernet cables and that raised the bar even more.
I use a Bluesound Powernode 2i to drive the P3ESRs (and sub) on my desktop system. Previously I had a Sprout 100 driven at various times by Ieast, Teufel, and Denon renderers. I bought the Powernode variant because I wanted to hear a different Class D amp. In all this switching around I never noticed any significant change in SQ, but I am a tolerant listener! The Powernode has so far given no trouble. I find BluOS adequate but not as good as the BubbleUPnP I used with the conventional renderers. In ‘bang per buck’ terms the Node and Powernode 2i are excellent.
for a while, I used the Node 2I via a NAD D3045 - then upgraded to SGCD / S300 combo which was way better. With balanced interconnects the sound took on a Holographic character. I wasn’t using the Node 2 internal DAC in either case as I find it dark and veiled.
That’s my setup now exactly. I like the Node2 a lot. I think there is a slight boost in overall sound quality over the PC with Audirvana, but I bought the Node 2 for streaming simplicity, which it delivers.
Inteeesting thread. I got the PowerNode 2i for a TV room system, although right now it runs into.an old pair of NOLA Contenders with no TV yet. I have enjoyed it a great deal. I love the Bluesound app. And sitting in the room to listen I was surprised how credible the sound quality was … I wouldn’t expect it to blow gear twice its price out of the water (I paid 750). What I did expect was a one-box digital solution that would mostly handle TV audio (streaming and Blu-Ray), but I found it so enjoyable that if I was someone just trying to build a starter system, I think it would be a great option (just add speakers).
Yes, the Stellar GCD was definitely more open and less veiled. It wasn’t night and day, but it was absolutely noticeable without having to do any a/b tests, and I’ve never looked back.
That being said – you know what really blows me away??? Is how much better the SOtM SMS 200, Matrix, and Audirvana upsampling Qobuz files to DSD 128 are compared to the Bluesound Node 2.
At roughly double the price of the Node 2 the sound is FAR superior. This upgrade (source) has probably been the most significant upgrade in my system. Better than switching from an Onkyo integrated with Node 2 standalone to a NuWave DSD DAD added to the system, then better than switching from the NuWave DSD DAC with Onkyo player to the Stellar GCD and S300 and Node 2. It has been the most significant upgrade in my system in terms of how obvious things sound better.
I know this is a Node 2 thread, but for those interested in going roughly double the price and getting MUCH better sound quality I unquestionably recommend this setup (SOtM SMS 200; Matrix; Audirvana streaming DSD; and a linear power supply into the Matrix).
This is exciting. To get such a large improvement at relatively modest cost is always delightfully satisfying.
Your experience should be of significant interest to Node 2 owners and shoppers. It is always good to know what else is available, especially when it is this much better at an affordable price.
The reason I change to BluOS is because my Stellar Gain Cell DAC nearly blew my active monitors as it caused very nasty clipping even at low volume. The Stellar Gain Cell DAC was the most expensive Audio gear I had ever purchased till that time, and the only AV device I owned, that broke down 10 years, most AV I owned is runs for 20 years ore more without any problem.
Luckily it is within it‘s warranty. But having spent EUR 1800 and having to deal with no music at all for a month in my home office while being locked down is just not what I bargained for.
So I got a good deal from my dealer and put the Stellar Gain Cell DAC in for a NAD C 658 in the home office and a M 33 for the living room.
What I gain by this:
integrated 24 bit 192 kHz streaming of even the analog sources through the entire house!
DIRAC room treatment in home office and living room
NAD level SQ, which has never had bad reviews, many musicians I know own NAD
integrated phono pre amp stages, C 568 MM, M 33 MC/MM
Full compatibility with my current Apple Music system, BluOS works on every smart device and Computer we own, MacOS, Windows, iOS, Apple Watch the best is it works on our old iPadII from 2013, of which I removed the dust and gave it a new purpose of best remote, and user interface ever.
I can expand that system with financially more attractive solutions than a ultra high end system or even the Stellar product range
What I lose:
the excellent looks and simplicity (in a positive way) of the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, I have alway loved the looks of the PS Audio Stellar devices, IMHO the look smarter and than the signature or perfect wave series
balanced inputs in my home office
USB DAC in my home office, the NAD C 568 nor the M 33 have offer USB DAC input
native DSD Playback, BluOS converts DSD to PCM
I2S input, although I don’t think this benefits the Stellar budget users as much as those who are willing to set aside the Perfect Wave, Signature series budget.
Maybe the Stellar Gain Cell DAC sounds a bit better. I can not tell, as it has not been playing at all for the last month and the last I heard, cost me a sleepless night as my wife called upon my sanity to buy such expensive equipment that breaks down so fast and even could have cost me my active speakers.
Therefore I am happy the PS Audio representative was able to, and did repair the Stellar Gain Cell DAC under warranty and that I was able to get a great deal on this NAD equipment.
And overall, provided the repair is technically sound, the new owner will have lots of fun with the Stellar Gain Cell DAC.
I most certainly enjoy my time on this forum and appreciate every bodies comments that enabled me to to make up my mind for the system I decided for.
I use my DSD and self-built server for “serious” listening.
I use a Bluesound Powernode 2i to drive the P3ESRs (and sub) on my desktop system. Previously I had a Sprout 100 driven at various times by Ieast, Teufel, and Denon renderers. I bought the Powernode variant because I wanted to hear a different Class D amp. In all this switching around I never noticed any significant change in SQ, but I am a tolerant listener! The Powernode has so far given no trouble. I find BluOS adequate but not as good as the BubbleUPnP I used with the conventional renderers. In ‘bang per buck’ terms the Node and Powernode 2i are excellent.